Correction: God never threatens anyone with hell, he just warns us against ending up there by choice.
People go to hell because they choose a path that leads away from God's gracious and abundant provision of eternal life with him in his heavenly habitation; i.e., they make choices that separate them from God's life-giving presence.
Unfortunately, the only alternative eternal habitation for the human soul is hell, which was prepared for the devil and his angels as judgment and punishment for their rebellion against God and his rule. Whoever rejects God and his ways therefore ends up there instead.
That's why Jesus came to earth to proclaim God's Kingdom, pay the price of our deliberate acts of rebellion against God and offer us the gift of eternal life. The Bible serves as a record of all this so that we can all read it and make our own informed choices.
11 comments
The concept of Hell being a something a person chooses wasn't a thing until around CS Lewis' time. You'd think someone who actually cares about their religion or studying it's history would know that but considering this is the Premier crowd, they can't very well do that now can they ?
http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=139233
Um, God set up the whole system of "Worship me and do what I say or else be tortured in Hell for eternity." It's not like he created Heaven and the entire universe and everything, but Hell just happened to pop into existence by itself and God has no power over who gets sent there. And since I never agreed to "worship God or burn in Hell," I shouldn't be subject to God's whim. When I die, I just want total oblivion.
Yeah, it`s a threat. Or is your deity simply a heavenly clerc in service of things much greater still and has no control and no power over the system he maintains? Then again who rebels against a mere clerc? So there you have it, either your deity is no deity at all and we should find the real dude to worship or he is who you tout him to be and so he set it all up that way, he csn`t stand sapeient beings living free lives without him and it is he, who is ultimately the real genocidal, sadistic beast.
Choose.
You can spend your life defending that indefensible "god", or not. Let's face it, humans invented that evil and capricious deity, so they really could have invented a more benevolent one instead.
Being human, they went for shock value over moral leadership. What, you think "R" rated fiction is something new?
which was prepared for the devil and his angels as judgment and punishment for their rebellion against God and his rule.
Yeah. That's pretty fucked up for both the humans and the angels.
So God makes two sentient races that both fall, and then he only offers salvation to one, and yet punishes both exactly the same? Why didn't God assume the form of an angel and die to save the fallen ones? Because he's a tyrannical asshole who plays favorites, that's why.
No being deserves eternal, inescapable agony. Especially since Satan was only following his predestined path, and could not stray from it. It was God that designed a universe that could be so easily corrupted by Satan. He should have made both Satan and his universe better. And then when Satan rebelled, he should have just exiled him for a few eons to think about what he did, not fucking banish him to Earth when he could corrupt mankind as well! Just what the fuck was God thinking?!
That's why Jesus came to earth to proclaim God's Kingdom, pay the price of our deliberate acts of rebellion against God and offer us the gift of eternal life.
He didn't pay the price. Jesus isn't suffering eternally in Hell. He was just mildly inconvenienced for a few hours.
Answer me this simple question, and I'll convert right now.
When does God pay the price for his deliberate acts of murder and destruction and pain on humanity?
God is the one who should be begging for humankind's forgiveness, not the other way around.
@Denizen
Well if you seriously want to know might I suggest expanding your horizons on the matter ? I don't want to be coy or to pry but seems to me like you suscribe a Calvinistic mindset to scrupture or challanging fundies. There seems to be a three split on salvation beliefs prevelant in Christianity.
Calvinism - God is Soverign and able to save everyone - despite what the Bible says- but chooses/doesn't want to not to. He is able but not willing.
Arminianism - God wants to save everyone - as the Bible says - but is unable to affect free will. He is willing but unable to save everyone.
Universalism - God is soverign, wants to save everyone and gets exactly what he wants. Despite this, this isn't popular with the overwhelming fundie crowd. As you can guess a lot of them are offended at the notion of God saving evryone or eventually saving everyone.
As for Jesus' death and why he isn't eternally burning in Hell, traditionally the entire point of his ressurection is that he was supposed to conquer death, and did spend three days in Sheol/Hades which was later translated to Hell. It should also be noted that one of the places understood and translated into Hell wasn't tradtionally thought as a permenant destination. Even the idea that his death was a blood sacrifice was a late idea. I'd suggest looking up the Ransom theory.
The idea of literal eternal torment wasn't incorperated until later down the line due to Latin translation and influences. Going with the idea that "Hell" wasn't considered a permanent residence, most Christian sects back then usually leaned to Annhilationism or Univeralism.
@Denizen
God is the one who should be begging for humankind's forgiveness, not the other way around
http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=95809
"If there is a god, he will have to beg for my forgiveness." - a phrase carved into a concentration camp cell wall by a Jewish prisoner
A certain 'Book' will contain just one name.
And a certain 'Judgement Seat' will have to be an extremely long one, to hold all of humanity since Homo Sapiens first showed up in Africa. With priority given to a certain Six Million.
Your Goddy-boy is fucked , OP.
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If he isn't already. [/Judges 1:19]
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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