I have a reason to use the word “anti-theist” rather than atheist. The person who would hold to traditional atheism as a belief system is insistent that no compelling proof exists for him to believe in God. The atheist claims to be neutral when considering the evidence for the existence of God, but his “neutrality” is disingenuous, because he absolutely has no intention of abandoning his atheism and submit himself to God if and when that undeniable proof for God is discovered. Thus, in reality, the supposed atheist is against any and all evidence that would point to God. His attitude is one that is opposed to God as an anti-theist, rather than a neutral observer waiting around to see if God shows up.
I have a personal example of this attitude when I had an atheist challenge me to take his “god detector” test. This fellow had built a small box with a free-floating needle set in the center. The needle pointed toward the left side, and on the right side the atheist had written, “I exist.” The atheist’s challenge was that if I could ask God to move the needle so as to point to the words he had written, he would then believe God existed. I rolled my eyes and laughed, and then asked the atheist, “If the needle does move, will you abandon all of your atheistic beliefs and embrace Jesus Christ as your Lord?” He thought a moment and replied, “I don’t know, it depends on if the box wasn’t rigged and if God could do it once, then you could ask him to do it again, and when I determine there is no fakery and that the moves were genuine, then maybe I would think about it.” His response demonstrates clearly the true heart of the atheist: It is one that is opposed to God, rather than one honestly looking for God. He offered a simple test, but if the criteria of his test were actually met, then he would change the criteria until it was no longer a valid test in his mind and he would have a further excuse to justify his unbelief and rebellion toward God. Such is the heart of the anti-theist.
31 comments
The desperation is strong with this one. Proof positive that theism can turn a sensible human being into a gabbling imbecile. Example, to a gabbling theist imbecile, there are three states of being:-
1) theism = belief in a deity, to exist to a state of lunacy.
2) anti-theism = to possess a small box with a needle.
3) atheism = to not believe in a deity, or in the case of a theist, to gabble incessantly about believing in er, something or the other, and er, boxes with needles, er ...
Blah blah blah. I know what atheists think more than they do. Blah blah blah.
Heard it before and it's no more true now than it was the last time, or the time before that and the time before that . . .
Atheism = not to believe in Allah, Odin, Ra, Zeus, or any other deities except, er, for Bible God,...er in other words, atheism = exactly the same as theism, er ... my brain hurts.
If your Gobs were to present clear proof of himself (and as it stands, Gobs is a logical contradiction), THEN I would believe in him, but I wouldn't submit to him because he is evil.
The theist claims to be neutral when considering the evidence for the existence of God, but his “neutrality” is disingenuous, because he absolutely has no intention of abandoning his theism if and when that undeniable proof that there is no god in that gap is discovered.
I would more than willingly accept the existence of God given sufficient evidence. Your friend, however, is correct in saying that the passing of one very simple test wouldn't be good enough. There's a reason why scientists don't just go with the first results they get. The results would be unreliable, unless they can be repeated.
Yet another asshole theist telling the world what atheists think, know, believe, feel, and want.
I'm not an anti-theist. It's just that all the "proofs" of God are designed to only convince those who already believe, and actual hard, factual evidence is nowhere to be found.
And frankly, I don't give two shits about your religion as long as you keep it to yourself. I actually enjoy living my life without religion and don't want to be bothered with it. I'm not out trying to convince every Christian I know that they're wrong, so I wish all Christians would extend me the same courtesy.
I think I must quote my personal hero and investigative journalist extraordinaire ,
Spider Jerusalem:
"I am sick of being doorstepped, buttonholed and begged at by the religious.
I am sick of the city's loose change and spare sanity sucked up and lived off by by an ever- increasing pile of parasitical shit- ticks incapable of STANDING UP AND DEALING WITH THE WORLD ON THEIR OWN."
he absolutely has no intention of abandoning his atheism and submit himself to God if and when that undeniable proof for God is discovered.
Sure he does. But I think 2,500 years is long enough to wait for that proof. As for the needle, it's reasonable to look for other explanations before jumping to the conclusion that God did it by magic. Just because a helium balloon rises is no reason to abandon the theory of gravity and claim it was magic.
Dear Fred,
I just received news that my friend, Pope Francis, is putting the Vatican up for sale after Argentina wins the World Cup. I could get you in touch with the sellers for a modest fee...
He offered a simple test
And rather than take it, you avoided it...
You know that undeniable proof you talk about? You've never given it.
The atheist claims to be neutral when considering the evidence for the existence of God, but his “neutrality” is disingenuous, because he absolutely has no intention of abandoning his atheism and submit himself to God if and when that undeniable proof for God is discovered
If I were presented undeniable proof of a deity, I would have to accept that that deity existed. Your problem is that what you consider "undeniable proof" is laughably deniable. The Bible contradicts itself, is flat-out wrong in places, and has no evidence that its core claims about God are at all true.
But, even if I had to accept the existence of a deity due to it appearing in Times Square on New Year's Eve and then going on a world tour to show off its power, there's a giant step between that and submitting myself to that deity. In modern democratic societies, the public chooses who they want in power, and can remove those people if they no longer like the job they're doing. Many of those positions also have term limits to prevent any one person from accumulating too much power, and even with the ones that don't, we can be sure that at some point the person will die. None of that describes pretty much any deity, who just seized or was granted their power unilaterally, who can't really be knocked down a peg, and who is usually assumed to be immortal. Don't we usually frown upon dictators for life?
Though Fred's set a rather transparent straw-man, he is resoundingly defeated by it.
The "atheist" states that he would first look for signs of trickery or error, then if none is found, change his mind and believe. Ensuring that there are no other explanations isn't evil or close minded, rather its the most unbiased thing you can possibly do.
This is projection in it's purest form. A Christian, especially one of the faith only verity can never doubt. Is not allowed to even concider doubting or they are a false convert. So no evidence can ever change their minds. Because nothing can ever change their minds they think thats the case with atheists as well.
Dude's right. This was not a valid test. Atheists don't see god, we don't feel god, we see the ludicrousness of religions, we see the randomness of the universe and how it is not the best of all possible worlds. We have much more compelling reasons not to believe than some stupid "test" for the existence of god, and this was just to make this guy look stupid, or this commenter could have made the whole thing up, but the point is the same.
There is no "traditional atheism" nor an atheist belief system, there's just a lack of belief in gods. No tangible, scientific proof exists for the existence of any gods. I've never claimed to be neutral; I point to all the horrible things done in the name of a god, and say that any benevolent god would have stopped it, so either god is not benevolent, or he doesn't exist.
If you actually do present undeniable proof for a god, I would consider believing in that god. Submitting to that god would take even more consideration. Would you reconsider your religiosity and become an atheist, if there is no evidence for the existence of your deity? We HAVE been waiting around, for several thousand years now; no gods have shown up.
That atheist was just being scientific about it; if God can move the needle, and repeat it, and there is no possible other explanation (another deity, for example), then the challenge has been met. I'm still fuzzy about how that test is showing that it is God, and not Zeus or Odin or Shiva, moving the needle...
Btw, how do you justify your unbelief and rebellion towards Shiva, Freddie?
This whole thing stinks of you pulling some compass trickery with a magnet under the table and seeing if you could con an Atheist with it and when it failed, because the Atheist knew there was a con in the works, Because you're a shifty bastard, you reversed the story to make it sound like he suggested the test.
For one thing the Atheist answer is far too easy on your God, I say "We're talking about God here, right? Make the thing point up God. magnets or turning on a radio could move the damn needle to one side, make it fly around the room and sew a curtain together"
But then, I DO expect more from a God than you, I guess.
^(Should read 'Anon-e-moo se'; damn this keyboard!)
So all Freddie-boy's tl;dr simply boils down to the fundies' well-worn chestnut of a faith 'shield': 'Thou shalt not test the lord thy God'.
Well, in that case, if it was perfectly all right for your 'God' to order Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, then at the last second interrupt him and say 'OK, j/k; lol, k?!', then we have more than every right in the world to test him .
Ain't double standards a bitch eh, Butt-boy...?! >:D
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.