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Ah, so the assorted videos gleaned from natural history programmes showing animals being somewhat the worse for wear after having eaten rotting marula fruit was faked?
8/17/2012 3:13:02 AM
Biblical Truth always trumps empirical "truth"!
8/17/2012 3:29:50 AM
As we have shown above, the seven month time span would not have been a problem due to the multitude of frequently used preservation methods, all of which easier than fermentation, available to the people at that time.
8/17/2012 4:01:24 AM
The man around whom christians built their religion drank wine - Deal with it!
8/17/2012 4:10:39 AM
Jesus was a lush. So was everyone else because the water was full of shit and diseases.
8/17/2012 4:46:23 AM
More "Jesus turned water into grape juice" crap from the fundie Christians who think that one drop of alcohol will send you to hell forever.
What, you don't think they could have found a cool place somewhere to store the jugs of juice that would allow good fermentation?
BTW, ideal fermentation takes place between 50 and 75 degrees, depending on the yeast. That doesn't mean that fermentation won't take place at temperatures warmer than 75 degrees. It just means the alcohol produced will be harsher.
How do I know? I make my own wine.
8/17/2012 5:12:58 AM
8/17/2012 5:29:03 AM
Animals drunk on rotten fruit are observed regularly. Ive personally seen wasps as pissed as farts after eating rotten windfall apples in the garden of my childhood home. I've also known the teetotal apple juice made by my mother become accidentally alcoholic due to unforseen fermentation.
8/17/2012 5:49:59 AM
The indispensable conditions for vinous fermentation are exact proportions of sugar, yeast or gluten and water with air temperature between 50 and 75 degrees. Chemical science forbids vinous fermentation when heat exceeds 75 degrees and assures the acetous (vinegar). Since the Middle East is well above that even at night most of the year,
What about wine cellars? If the goat fuckers didn't have a cave, how long did they have to wait for a scientist to invent a shovel?
8/17/2012 6:10:18 AM
Chemical science forbids vinous fermentation when heat exceeds 75 degrees and assures the acetous (vinegar). Since the Middle East is well above that even at night most of the year
Even underground? There's a reason people invented the wine CELLAR.
Some will still say that Jesus Christ indeed drank alcoholic wine and we know this by the passover
He probably did. Alcohol is sterile (plus it's alcohol) so people of the day, even Jesus, drank it. And you bending over backwards to deny that is hilarious.
8/17/2012 6:13:20 AM
Oh, yeah, that miracle at Cana was awesome. Dude turned water into grape juice, and the guests at the wedding all said, "Jesus, you cheap bastard, give us some booze!"
Did you know there is a thriving Israeli wine industry? They don't, funnily enough, store the barrels or the bottled stuff in refrigerators, and while the wine isn't all that great, to be honest, it's most certainly not vinegar.
Cite needed on the Josephus and Pliny quotes.
8/17/2012 6:23:43 AM
Huh, tell that to the oranges and melons that regularly turn alcoholic if I leave them out too long. (I don't like my fruit refrigerated, even though they last longer, they don't taste as good.)
Pineapple is rather pleasant when it's just starting to ferment.
8/17/2012 7:10:20 AM
8/17/2012 7:13:00 AM
"Nature NEVER forms spiritous liquors. The fruit (grape) may rot and turn sour but it takes ART to convert juice to alcohol."
Elephants - as well as various other animals - eat fruit. It fermemts in their stomachs. Result: They get drunk.
Now, if they didn't like the experience, they'd learn from the previous instance, and never touch fruit again (just as certain predators try to eat certain other animals - especially insects/reptiles/amphibians - that have venomous/poisonous skins/insides; they find such to be foul, and thus vomit such out, put two & two together and get the answer 'Don't touch prey with bright colours again'.
So riddle me this, Willie: why do those elephants etc continue to eat fruit, if the resulting after-effects aren't natural?
You cannot defend the Temperance Movement, via your 'interpretation' of the Bible. If it says 'Wine', then it means Wine. Just ask any Anthropologist/Archaeologist.
And even before wine, there was Beer. Beer was so vital to ancient civilisations, it was used as a currency in Sumeria.
8/17/2012 7:36:07 AM
8/17/2012 7:37:20 AM
So what is the difference between "grape juice" and "unfermented wine"?
Can you provide some evidence for your stupidity?
8/17/2012 7:58:55 AM
You people aren't happy unless you're sucking the joy out of everything, are you?
If wine in biblical times was non-alcoholic, why did the killjoy founder of your church (Paul, I'm talking about, not Jesus) declare that it was better to get DRUNK on the holy spirit than on wine? You can't get drunk on non-alcoholic wine.
8/17/2012 8:11:41 AM
This video, showing animals getting drunk on naturally fermented fruit i.e. alcohol, completely refutes your whole premise.
Get yourself an education before you spout lies to everyone.
8/17/2012 8:13:54 AM
although the wine made back then cannot compare to the wine of today in terms of taste, it was actually stronger (iirc) than that of today (at about 18-20° instead of the standard red at 12-14°), so they watered it down to purify the water. that said, non-alcoholic wine is just grape juice. wine is de facto alcoholic... and alcohol has saved humanity for the past 4000 years. idiot
8/17/2012 8:19:28 AM
Nature NEVER forms spiritous liquors. The fruit (grape) may rot and turn sour but it takes ART to convert juice to alcohol.
Tell that to the squirrels and birds who get intoxicated after eating fermented berries (berries that are still on the vine, by the way).
Jesus drank wine, made wine and sanctified it for ritual. Unfermented wine is fruit juice, nothing more, and certainly not wine. The bible specifically uses the word WINE, therefore it can be understood that the beverage in question was fermented.
You are either poorly informed or in denial. Either way, get over yourself.
8/17/2012 8:20:05 AM
The Bible is literally true, word for word, and only a liberal false Christian would claim that any part of it is up to interpretation. The Bible is the Word of God and contains no errors.
Except for all the parts about drinking wine, of course. They meant to write "grape juice". Oops!
8/17/2012 8:44:31 AM
Reality begs to differ.
8/17/2012 9:02:00 AM
Rather than posting at "Learn the bible" you should be reading at someplace called Learn Some Chemistry.
8/17/2012 9:21:38 AM
The bible specifically uses the word WINE, therefore it can be understood that the beverage in question was fermented.
I had a fundie friend try to explain to me that there were two different definitions of "wine" in the bible, one meant "strong drink," or fermented, alcoholic wine, while the other definition mean "fruit of the vine," or grape juice. For some reason, you're only allowed to use the second definition of wine when talking about the wedding at Cana story.
I told him this was bunk because in the story they said that usually they bring out the best wine first, and later the lesser vintages. Reason being because you'll notice the better wine when you're sober and after you've gotten a bit drunk you won't care about drinking the lesser wine. If they were just drinking grape juice, it wouldn't matter.
8/17/2012 9:23:25 AM
"Unfermented wine was the most common wine in biblical times."
Odd that this rare, uncommon alcoholic wine is what's clearly being referenced in most Biblical verses discussing wine. Noah gets drunk on wine, Samson gets drunk on wine, multiple verses in Proverbs and Leviticus warn against overindulgence in wine because it gets you drunk... Clearly, this guy is worse at Biblical exegesis than he is at throwing a decent party.
8/17/2012 9:36:43 AM
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