"If we acknowledge that rights are granted by God (Declaration of Independence),"
The dumbass believes a deity wrote the Declaration?
8/15/2012 3:34:33 AM
1) "Sharia law" is a redundancy, moron.
2) Treaty of Tripoli. We win.
8/15/2012 3:46:30 AM
Percy Q. Shunn
Umm, you do realize that the Declaration Of Independence is nothing more than a letter written to the King, right? The Constitution, on the other hand, makes zero mention of your silly god, or morality. I love how the founders did that to you!
Please stop being an idiot.
8/15/2012 3:53:27 AM
The OT and Sharia are much more alike in their "morality" than you'd like to acknowledge, stupid. The "egregious and unjust penalties" are very similar.
Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same deity, stupid. If something is founded in the Judeo-Christian consensus, it also includes Muslim consensus.
Christians see nothing wrong in forcing a woman to marry her rapist. We know this is an egregious violation of that woman's rights.
8/15/2012 3:59:52 AM
The trouble is, even among Christians, morality is subjective. For example, is it moral to drink alcohol? A Baptist would say no. A Catholic would say yes.
Also, the United States wasn't founded upon Christianity, etc. Not that it matters because they won't listen at all, but just thought I'd throw that out there anyway.
8/15/2012 5:21:51 AM
Morality is a concrete thing. It doesn't vary with the whims of a society. Except my society.
God says what my society says he says, even if it contradicts what was said last week.
It is written on the heart of every human being, except for heathen human beings.
A christian has a right to go to a church on sunday and worship there. He has no right to impose bible law on the nation. Observe the distinction. Bible law is a moral system. It is not Allahs morality because of the egregious and unjust penalties it imposes. And it is not a form of worship.
Christians see nothing wrong in outlawing lifesaving surgeries and risking womens lives because the surgery that will save them is forbidden by their so called god. We know this is an egregious violation that womans rights, we do not permit that here.
Morality is something very specific, and the mere fact that some people do not understand clearly what it is, or choose to ignore their own consciences doesn't mean that we don't have a duty to maintain the very fabric of society upon which our freedoms are based.
Allah dictates morality, not the federal government or any other government. When a government attempts to contravene Allah's moral law, that's dictating morality, even IF it appears it is granting freedom. Licentiousness enslaves on the most basic level. A licentious nation cannot maintain freedom.
8/15/2012 5:23:58 AM
So... You claim morality is concrete, imprinted onto people by God, and societies cannot change it. You then go on to outline that different societies have different standards of morality, invalidating your first four sentences entirely. Bravo.
8/15/2012 5:58:22 AM
"He has no right to impose Shari'a law on the nation."
Nor do Christians have the right to impose their religious rights on any nation.
The Qur'an is just as valid as the bible. Both are claimed to be the word of God with equal lack of proof on both sides. (Regardless of what YOU claim the Declaration of Independence says. I'm not American, but I don't believe there is any mention of God in the DOI or the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
8/15/2012 6:04:54 AM
Whose God? I'm well aware that you mean the Christian God but which Christian God? The Baptist one? The Catholic one? The Lutheran God? The Mormon God(s)? The Unitarian Universalist one? Actually, the Unitarian Universalist God DOES kind of match the founding principles of the US (at least moreso than any of the others) but you don't quite sound like a Unitarian Universalist. So which God is it? Because they're all quite different.
8/15/2012 6:11:40 AM
8/15/2012 6:53:05 AM
Before you had freedom to, now you have freedom from....Geeze, the Handmaid's Tale was not meant as a how to manual.
8/15/2012 7:07:29 AM
Treaty of Tripoli and first amendment say we're not Christian. And you killl your own morality is concrete argument. And while you do, you also expose your hypocrisy. This is not even fail. This is super fail
8/15/2012 7:18:05 AM
If morality comes from your god, then it is just as relativistic as if it came from man. If morality is truly concrete, then it would be so regardless of whether your god exists or not.
8/15/2012 7:39:11 AM
8/15/2012 7:50:47 AM
Fundies Make Me Sick
Morality (for the most part) is relative. That is all.
8/15/2012 7:52:29 AM
So Pat, if morality is from the christian god, then can we stone you for wearing a poly-cotton t-shirt, while eating lobster during your lunch break on a saturday afternoon?
8/15/2012 7:55:45 AM
Licentiousness enslaves on the most basic level. A licentious nation cannot maintain freedom.
Freedom is slavery!
8/15/2012 7:56:00 AM
You claim morality is a concrete thing. If you were right, you could rest a cup of coffee on it.
Everything you say after that is even wronger.
8/15/2012 7:56:16 AM
Oh My Dog!
"Nature's God" and "Creator" is the god of The Declaration of Independence, and is a rather vague reference to a diety at best.
A Muslim has a right to go to a mosque on Friday and worship there. He has no right to impose Shari'a law on the nation
Riiiight, apparently you forgot what you wrote in the first paragraph. A Christian has a right to go to a church on Sunday and worship there. He has no right to impose Christianity on the nation. See my point?
Also, Prove your God dictates morality.
Edit: And please explain all that genocidal mayhem in the Old Testament if God is so moral.
8/15/2012 8:04:45 AM
Soooooo much fail, particularly regarding concrete morality. Every society has its own morals, and that set of morals will not be identical to any other. Even in the same society morality can differ between individuals; racists believe it's perfectly okay to discriminate against people not of their race, while non-racists don't.
8/15/2012 9:25:10 AM
"If we can ignore morality when it comes to harmful activity, then we undermine the very basis of our freedoms."
Yes... and YOU ignore the morality of forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist... or eating shrimp... or wearing clothing of mixed fibres... or rebelling against the king.
Funny how the USA is completely immoral from the word go... including that Declaration of Independence you like so much. It's completely against the morality that your God dictated... When you come on back under British rule, then you can start pontificating about morality.
8/15/2012 9:48:50 AM
"Morality is a concrete thing."
Death: Humans need fantasy to *be* human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.
Susan: With tooth fairies? Hogfathers?
Death: Yes. As practice, you have to start out learning to believe the little lies.
Susan: So we can believe the big ones?
Death: Yes. Justice, mercy, duty. That sort of thing.
Susan: They're not the same at all.
Death: You think so? Then take the universe and grind it down to the finest powder, and sieve it through the finest sieve, and then show me one atom of justice, one molecule of mercy. And yet, you try to act as if there is some ideal order in the world. As if there is some, some rightness in the universe, by which it may be judged.
Susan: But people have got to believe that, or what's the point?
Death: You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become? - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0765458/quotes
Now find me some morality using the same process.
8/15/2012 11:47:36 AM
"Morality is a concrete thing. It doesn't vary with the whims of a society."
So human slavery is and has always been unvaryingly moral, and the current legal prohibitions against it just represents contemporary society acting on a whim?
8/15/2012 12:07:14 PM
no its not. morality is relative to the society in which one lives.
American constitution. Muslims have the same rights of assembly and worship as anyone else. Law is set by congress and the senate, no one else.
Religeous freedoms do not include forced prostitution , nor do they allow human sacrifice, sodomizing small boys, or anything unlawful.
8/15/2012 12:45:55 PM
It is not God's morality because of the egregious and unjust penalties it imposes.
Suggested reading for Pat: The Old Testament.
8/15/2012 1:21:57 PM