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#1424221
Ironchew
Typical explanation from a religion that uses a torture device as its symbol.
Feel that Christian love!
7/16/2012 2:55:03 PM
#1424223
Filin De Blanc
I still haven't figured out why the hell it was necessary for Jesus to die in the first place. Couldn't God have just gone "okay, you're saved from your sins now" without the whole "agonizing death of his son" thing?
7/16/2012 2:57:27 PM
#1424224
anevilmeme
That may be the most pathetic argument ever by a fundie.
7/16/2012 2:58:05 PM
#1424225
Deus ex Populo
My head hurts from trying to make sense of this shit. Just admit you don't have an answer and be done with it.
7/16/2012 2:59:39 PM
#1424226
checkmate
If there were no "bad" people born, then there wouldn't be any "bad" people around who would have sent Jesus to the cross.
Yeah, but then again Eve wouldn't have obeyed the serpent and we wouldn't have been in this perdicament in the first place.
Either that or it's all just a crock of bullshit.
I tilt heavily towards the latter.
7/16/2012 3:02:36 PM
#1424229
Jedi Knight
That's one o f the stupidest attempts to rationalize evil I've ever heard. I could debunk it, if I cared enough.
7/16/2012 3:09:26 PM
#1424230
Atheissimo
Sort of ok unless you're one of the 'little people' that is doomed for eternity to make your system work.
And it's atheism that devalues human life....
7/16/2012 3:10:25 PM
#1424231
emau99
Look, dude, you can contort it as much as you like, if your God is omnipotent, then it can do WHATEVER THE HELL IT WANTS. If it doesn't want people to go to hell, they don't go to hell.
7/16/2012 3:11:37 PM
#1424233
LDM
How has such a fucked up religion survived for so long?
7/16/2012 3:16:49 PM
#1424235
Mad_Jester
Or maybe- just maybe- the idea (of a religion that punishes one for existing unless one claps one's hands and believes in the Magical Scapegoat) is irredeemably (HA!) flawed to begin with.
7/16/2012 3:18:25 PM
#1424237
WWWWolf
> if God arranged it that no "bad" people were born, then we would all go to hell.
Okkaaaayyy. If true, that's obviously screwed up, and there can't be any good rationale for that.
> If there were no "bad" people born, then there wouldn't be any "bad" people around who would have sent Jesus to the cross.
That's okay, because if Jesus hadn't been crucified (as stories go), we wouldn't have Christianity and Christian doctrine either.
The omnipotent God, now out of ideas how to tell humanity how to get saved, would be forced to condemn everyone to hell by pure surprise.
This is incredibly loving and plausible. NOT.
7/16/2012 3:20:37 PM
#1424238
GOD
God looking in the mirror:
"Why can't I just snap my fingers and everybody's saved?"
"Because you have to follow the rules."
"Says who?"
"Says you."
"You?"
"Yes, you."
"Crap."
"Yeah."
"J-E-S-U-S! Come over here. Ever heard of this place called Bethlehem? Wanna go there?"
7/16/2012 3:23:33 PM
#1424247
LAchlan
A skeptic would be more likely to say "It's all made up and you fell for it".
7/16/2012 4:04:33 PM
#1424248
ScrappyB
This logic is so circular it's chasing its own tail.
7/16/2012 4:07:46 PM
#1424250
John
Fundie Beliefs #9: Christ’s Redemption
One day, God changed His mind about the Magic Fruit curse (see Gen. 3) and said "OK, I guess I’ll relent and remove my curse. I know what: I’ll send down My son – who’s really Me in disguise – and let them torture Me to death! That’ll pay Me for removing the Magic Fruit curse, which was put on them by Me in the first place."
OK, I guess put like that, this doesn’t make a lot of sense, since if someone has a grudge against you, he’s not likely to demand that you nail his son (who's really himself) to a cross to earn his forgiveness. But somehow that made sense to God, except that there’s this one additional condition: you have to communicate telepathically to God that you believe the guy who was nailed up was His Son, that you're "born again" and accept the Son as your personal saviour*, even if God gives you cancer, wipes out your town with a tornado or makes you marry a fat, ugly whiner and work your whole life for $11.00 an hour at the Walmart warehouse. If you do, you may have a crappy life, but you’re guaranteed a fine spot in heaven after you die. You can kill, rape or do almost anything else except one of the following:
• support abortion rights or gay marriage,
• believe in evolution or global warming,
• call for stronger gun laws,
• support universal health care or
• vote for a Democrat;
but otherwise as long as you believe in Jesus you’ll be among "the saved" and go to heaven. Then you can watch and snicker at all those Chardonnay-sipping New York liberals who, during life, made ten times as much money as you and had sex with better-looking partners, as they weep and gnash their teeth in the Lake O' Fire ®.
* Not "savior" – that has the satanic six letters instead of the godly seven. See "The Bible"
7/16/2012 4:10:13 PM
#1424255
Alencon
WTF did he just say?
I think he just said if everyone was "good," then no one would have been "bad" enough to crucify Jesus and therefore since even the "good" people have sinned, everyone would be condemned.
Oh, how about if Jesus came up with a less gory way to forgive everyone like two Hail Marys and a Lord's Prayer? Works for the Catholics.
7/16/2012 4:27:17 PM
#1424261
Stonespiral
Or.. the entire system is arbitrary to begin with.
7/16/2012 4:37:05 PM
#1424263
Creedence Leonore GielgudGod sacrificed himself, to himself in order to forgive people for their ancestors committing the ultimate sin of attaining knowledge, thus bettering themselves, which he fucking hates.
Odin sacrificed himself to himself to gain knowledge, specifically writing, which he shared with humanity. He also sacrificed one of his eyes on another occasion for similar reasons.
this also:
7/16/2012 4:49:18 PM
#1424264
freako104
We don't need to be.
7/16/2012 4:52:39 PM
#1424269
Zimmer
Makes me sad that someone as obviously intelligent as Matt Slick would waste it on something as worthless as apologetics.
7/16/2012 5:03:22 PM
#1424270
Xotan
Yes, all well and good. But where does logic come in? There is none that I can detect.
7/16/2012 5:03:55 PM
#1424282
tracer
Shame on you all for doubting God's supreme sacrifice!
JESUS GAVE UP A WHOLE 3-DAY WEEKEND FOR YOUR SINS!!
7/16/2012 5:47:18 PM
#1424283
tjonp
There was a time when I was somewhat of an amateur christian apologist. Not that I wrote books or articles or anything, but I actually contemplated questions like these and came up with half-assed answers like this.
I stopped being a christian when I realized how much I was wasting my intellect.
7/16/2012 5:51:57 PM
#1424301
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
7/16/2012 6:47:19 PM
#1424305
zoltán
I knew that Matt Slick was a self-absorbed (surprised he didn't put himself up there with Jesus), arrogant idiot*. Now I have a better idea of the degree of idiocy.
*Who happens to head a cult/hate group.
7/16/2012 6:58:30 PM
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