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that is it morally wrong to be illogical, for the same reason to tell lies is wrong
Logic or the lack of it has nothing to do with morality. A lie can be logically structured, but it is still immoral. A criminal can go about their actions very logically and methodically, but crime is still immoral.
Atheists (including myself) structure their morality around the concept of the Golden Rule. I don't want to be harmed, therefore I don't harm other people. I don't want to be lied to, therefore I don't lie. This has little to do with logic and a LOT to do with empathy, which most fundies seem to be lacking.
Sexual attraction is completely illogical in many cases, but that doesn't make it morally wrong, anymore than it's wrong to prefer strawberry ice cream over chocolate chip.
there is no moral code, not even the most liberal or liberatarian, which does not contain a tacit appeal to the innate purposes of things for moral authority
Moral authority is not based on "the innate purposes of things," but on the greater good for humanity. By the "innate purpose" argument, one could say that guns are designed to kill people, so killing people is moral. Human sexuality is clearly designed to give pleasure, and homosexuals seem to be having as much fun with sex as heterosexuals; by your own argument, then, homosexual acts are morally correct.
6/13/2012 9:34:07 PM
"...there is no moral code, not even the most liberal or liberatarian, which does not contain a tacit appeal to the innate purposes of things for moral authority."
Except for, you know, practically all of them. To be more specific, utilitarianism, which holds that actions are moral if they produce the most good; virtue ethics, which define moral actions as those taken by virtuous people; natural rights theories, which hold as immoral only actions which violate another's natural rights; contract theories, which focus on actions taken within a society as moral in abiding by the society's implicit social contract; the list goes on. In fact, I find it difficult to recall a single moral philosopher who argued for morality by appealing to "the innate purposes of things." I doubt you could name one either.
"An atheist can conclude that the nature of reason is such that to defy reason is to defy goodness: that is it morally wrong to be illogical, for the same reason to tell lies is wrong."
Perhaps, but you have done absolutely nothing to persuade me (or, I suspect, anyone reading your post at all) of this. If you think simply claiming that you were once an atheist and that you believed X is enough to convince me, as an atheist, that I should likewise believe X, you insult my intelligence.
I think you were once a stupid atheist, and are now a stupid Christian. Stupidity knows no religion, or lack thereof.
6/13/2012 9:35:24 PM
"That is it morally wrong to be illogical"
It is not logical to preoccupy yourself with other people being illogical unless their illogicality is hurting you or other people. It's a complete waste of time and energy. So by your own logic you are being immoral.
BTW, you FAIL grammar!
6/13/2012 11:10:55 PM
Have they ever told you that sex is pleasurable, sir?
6/13/2012 11:49:32 PM
But now that you are not an atheist I suppose you look at a man's sex organ and are immediately reminded of God. And when you look at a woman's sex organ I bet a holy act does mysteriously occur in your pants.
6/14/2012 12:56:02 AM
That's not how we establish what's moral or immoral. We do that by looking at the consequences of acts, at whether they lead to suffering.
Man is not entirely a rational animal. He sometimes acts in irrational ways. But he has a rational component, along with his intuitive and emotional content. Both are important to make a whole person.
Since homosexual relationships and sex acts can occur without harm or suffering to anyone, but, on the contrary, with an increase in well-being and fulfilment of the parties involved, we conclude that they are not immoral, and further, that they are not anyone else's business.
By "a sex act which does not involve sex" I presume you mean a sex act which does not involve procreation or impregnation. It isn't illogical if you can realize the basic fact that procreation is only one function of sex. Other functions are; To create a bond in a relationship, to release stress, to gain pleasure.
6/14/2012 3:17:20 AM
Truly, I worry for the sanity of these people.
6/14/2012 3:17:54 AM
If illogical = immoral, then this guy is a tyrant.
6/14/2012 3:29:04 AM
Whoa! The written language equivalent of a splatter painting.
6/14/2012 4:12:19 AM
You are entitled to think that. Carry on.
6/14/2012 4:14:41 AM
Not sure about gay sex, but Faith is definitely illogical, and therefore morally wrong by your reasoning.
6/14/2012 5:01:25 AM
John looked at the different shapes of over 500 dicks before deciding homosexuality was illogical.
6/14/2012 5:03:23 AM
When I was an atheist, I came to the conclusion that homosexuality was illogical."
Someone is here to talk to you about logic.
6/14/2012 5:50:46 AM
Humans aren't naturally built to use the internet either therefore it must be immoral and therefore you should get off of it immediately.
6/14/2012 6:03:53 AM
Humans are illogical, I know, I just read your post.
6/14/2012 6:06:48 AM
I can only find one logical response to your blind stagger through metaphysics, ontology, and ethics.
Suck my dick, asshole!
6/14/2012 6:55:04 AM
One need only look at the shape of the sex organs to see that they have an innate purpose to them
What, a penis can't fit into a mouth or an anus? I'm pretty sure you're wrong and therefore your argument is invalid.
6/14/2012 7:08:41 AM
I guess you never masturbated "when you were an atheist" then, since obviously your little penis doesn't fit into your hand.
6/14/2012 8:51:47 AM
as an atheist I have no reason to ponder about morality or logic in other people's sex life! Sex and logic don't really go together anyway.
6/14/2012 8:59:27 AM
Illogical does not mean wrong. Many things in this world are illogical or unnatural. That does not automatically mean 'bad'. For example, it is illogical to wear condoms, because you are prohibiting the genitalia from fulfilling their biological purpose. But that does not mean condoms are wrong. Seriously, what's wrong with having sex for fun or for love?
6/14/2012 10:16:02 AM
Love in general also illogical but damned if we aren't willing to lay down our lives for it.
You know what makes less sense? Monogamy. Yet I'm still totally cool with it and think cheating on someone when exclusiveness is implied in a relationship is a douche move as it betrays the trust of another causing them anguish.
6/14/2012 3:04:27 PM
People who say something completely stupid while trying to sound smart really are a pain.
One need only look at the shape of the sex organs to see that they have an innate purpose
Ah yes, you mean the male penis is designed to be attached to a milking machine?
6/14/2012 3:06:07 PM
You were never an atheist.
At best, you may have not cared about religion at some point. But you didn't give it much thought. In fact, you don't sound like you spent any significant time thinking about ANYTHING.
6/14/2012 4:18:34 PM
This guy has never danced, gone on a rollercoaster, stopped to enjoy a sunset, read poetry, ingested alcohol, or played a videogame. Or any game, for that matter. It would be illogical. Because fun = illogical now, apparently.
6/15/2012 3:58:23 AM
You can use the same argument to prove that Farmville is morally wrong. It's a work act that does not involve real work, so therefore it must be illogical and apparently against Mr. Wright's morals. So, are you asking us to shut down facebook, John? Or are you going to shut up and let reasonable people do what they want to?
6/15/2012 4:22:58 AM
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