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Quote# 87643

Extinction of Humanity.
by ~johnmuise

For the last 200 years, science has increasingly become ruled by a single “prime directive.” Those who remember the original Star Trek series will recall that every starship in the Federation fleet was bound by one unbreakable rule—they were never to interfere with the development of another culture. In a similar way, one unbreakable rule guides all modern scientific endeavors. Richard Dickerson, a prominent biochemist and member of the elite National Academy of Sciences, states it this way, “Science, fundamentally is a game. It is a game with one overriding and defining rule: Let us see how far and to what extent we can explain the behavior of the physical and material universe in terms of purely physical and material causes, without ever invoking the supernatural... A chess player is perfectly capable of moving his opponent’s king physically from the board and smashing it in the midst of a tournament. This would not make him the champion because the rules have not been followed.” 1

It is because of the “prime directive” of science (i.e. we must explain everything via evolution) that no matter how conclusive the evidence for our recent creation, it will not be acknowledged. Further-more, the evidence pointing to this reality will be buried, ignored, and at times not even seen by those whose paradigm of reality is that the prime directive must be upheld even at the cost of intellectual honesty.

For the last 50 years, it has been acknowledged that if there is more than one minor mistake on the genetic code of a species per generation, that species is ultimately doomed to extinction. For instance, if cockroaches have been around for 300 million years and they have one minor random change to their DNA every generation, over a billion meaningless mistakes would have built up - dooming them to extinction. No mechanism exists which can eliminate these minor mistakes. Natural selection can act as a quality control mechanism which can eliminate individuals with major genetic problems because such offspring are less fit for survival. However, natural selection cannot remove mistakes in the genetic code that build up having minimal survival effect.

For instance, suppose our genetic code was similar to a textbook full of information and each subsequent copy of the textbook had a few letters randomly changed. Natural selection would be like the test taken by everyone who had read each unique textbook with its individual set of errors. Very few, if any of the textbooks, could be eliminated based on the results of end of the year student testing. The next generation of books would have a few more errors, and the third generation a few more..etc...until the textbook ultimately became meaningless nonsense. Yet, for any given textbook generation, natural selection (the testing of students using all of the textbooks from that generation of books) would have no ability to eliminate any but the most blatantly erroneous textbooks. This is why it has been acknowledged that more than one minor error per generation will ultimately doom a species to extinction due to the “genetic load” of errors building up on its DNA code.2

It is not widely reported that every generation of humans has not one random error in their DNA code but thousands of random and permanent changes. These random changes are actually a loss of functioning information—the same way that random changes in the letters of a textbook result in the loss of information content.

The obvious question of ‘where did all of the original information come from?’ is also being ignored, as is the rate of detrimental changes -- orders of magnitude greater than any yet to be identified source of adding information. Furthermore, the rate at which mistakes are increasing on the human genome provides compelling evidence that the human genome cannot possibly have been around more than a few hundred generations nor can it survive indefinitely.

Never has there been so much scientific evidence supporting the reality that humans were recently created by an unimaginably intelligent designer. It is this evidence which makes it obvious that our hope lies not in this life nor in this physical universe—which is winding down, not up. Our hope lies in reconciling ourselves with the designer of this universe and in what He has done to provide for us in the eternity which will follow our physical extinction.

1. Dr. Michael Behe, Darwin’s Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution, Simon & Schuster,
p. 240, 1998.
2. Dr. J.C. Sanford, Genetic Entropy: The Mystery of the Genome, Ivan Press, 2005.

johnmuise, Deviantart 51 Comments [6/4/2012 3:40:30 AM]
Fundie Index: 54
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#1409556
Brendan Rizzo

What do you mean, "no mechanism can remove these minor mistakes"? If a mutation in one direction is a "mistake", it can be undone by a mutation in the opposite direction. This happens all the time-- ever heard of toothed chickens?

Not to mention that most deadly mutations kill the unfortunate organism before it can reproduce and pass it on. Why are creationists incapable of comprehending neutral or beneficial mutations?

I should note that the US is the only Western country where half the population is creationist. If that doesn't prove we are inferior, nothing does.

6/4/2012 4:06:46 AM

#1409562
Table Rock

You realize that disapproving evolution (which you don't) does not automatically make whatever theory you have correct. This isn't a football game where there are only two sides and you try to win by disqualifying the other team.

We would at least have to have a penalty shootout. Evolution will so kick your ass.

6/4/2012 4:11:41 AM

#1409571
Leighton Buzzard

OK, johnmuise, one more time: this is shit, and this is Shinola. Why can't you get it?

6/4/2012 4:19:10 AM

#1409572
Often Partisan

Yay, the fundie quoted source...oh wait Michael Behe.

6/4/2012 4:19:44 AM

#1409589
Mister Spak

"It is because of the “prime directive” of science (i.e. we must explain everything via evolution) "

Cap'n, the stupid shields are overloadin', we canna take much more o' this!!![/Scottie].

6/4/2012 4:37:44 AM

#1409614
Robespierre

Of course there is a mechanism to remove mistakes, it's called "death". A mutation is a "mistake" to the extent that it
A: makes the bearer less likely to survive
B: makes the bearer less likely to find mates
C: makes the bearer less likely to help its offspring survive
All of the above make the mutation less likely to be passed on. That's the whole bloody point.

Also, nature is all-comprehensive. If something exists, it is natural. We are natural. God, if there is one, is natural. Supernatural means by definition noonexistent. Trying to explain nature by inventing an entity that does not follow the same rules, using it like a jolly and making no effort to explain how this second entity works, is meaningless and misguided.

6/4/2012 5:10:44 AM

#1409630
Dr.Shrinker

Your screed is a bit long and pedantic. Let's tighten it up, shall we?


"There IS evidence! You just have to BELIEVE!!!"


Yeah, that pretty much covers it.

6/4/2012 5:42:13 AM

#1409637
Cy

"Very few, if any of the textbooks, could be eliminated based on the results of end of the year student testing."

And here's the glaring flaw in the analogy: natural selection requires that a certain percentage of the population fails to reproduce, or reproduces less effectively. If you're imposing an artificial situation where very few members of the population "die" and all the rest reproduce equally, then of course you're not going to see natural selection.

Add in a policy of culling the poorest-performing textbooks and allowing the best-performing textbooks to reproduce more, and you'll be closer to an analogy that actually represents reality.

6/4/2012 5:52:20 AM

#1409644
OhJohnNo

Deviantart? Seriously?

I... didn't know they thought about these kinds of things over there.

6/4/2012 6:01:47 AM

#1409676
navelgazer

Poorly defined thesis. Obvious logic errors. Poorly researched.

F-

6/4/2012 7:12:32 AM

#1409680
Doubting Thomas

Those who remember the original Star Trek series will recall that every starship in the Federation fleet was bound by one unbreakable rule—they were never to interfere with the development of another culture.

Yet if you watch the old Star Trek episodes, they broke that rule on a weekly basis.

6/4/2012 7:21:29 AM

#1409693
Ebon

Tl;dr version: Goddidit.

6/4/2012 7:40:45 AM

#1409727
Titania

Mister Spak FTW. You recieve 10 internets.

6/4/2012 8:24:54 AM

#1409743
jgc

You're wrong: if there were in fact evidence supporting a recent creation not only would it be acknowledged it would be embraced wholeheartedly and our understanding of the age of the earth and/or universe revised accordingly. That's how science works.

The problem with young earth models is that no such evidence exists. (Hint: scripture isn't evidence.)

6/4/2012 8:57:34 AM

#1409748
QuasiRodent

Well, considering that each individual animal in a mammalian species is host to dozens of mutations - almost all of which do NOTHING...

And because each gene has a copy from the opposite parent (with the exception of the X/Y chromosomes,) in cases of detrimental DNA, very often the broken code will get switched out for the healthier version on the other copy. (Though I'm not sure how the cells pick which one to use, this is what I was taught in Biology class.)

6/4/2012 9:08:00 AM

#1409752
breakerslion

"It is a game with one overriding and defining rule: Let us see how far and to what extent we can explain the behavior of the physical and material universe in terms of purely physical and material causes, without ever invoking the supernatural." ...

"It is because of the “prime directive” of science (i.e. we must explain everything via evolution)..."

Empiricism =|= Evolution. Failed premise or faulty set-subset delineation. Take your pick, and fail.

"For the last 50 years, it has been acknowledged that if there is more than one minor mistake on the genetic code of a species per generation, that species is ultimately doomed to extinction."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5olwWtDHEHw

"For instance, suppose our genetic code was similar to a textbook full of information and each subsequent copy of the textbook had a few letters randomly changed. ...The next generation of books would have a few more errors, and the third generation a few more..etc...until the textbook ultimately became meaningless nonsense."

It's even faster if you start with meaningless nonsense:

Torah
Greek texts
Latin Bible
Vulgate (various)
KJV
Revised Standard
etc.
etc.
Ad Nauseum.


Beam me up, Scotty. There's no intelligent life here.

6/4/2012 9:12:16 AM

#1409755


"For the last 50 years, it has been acknowledged that if there is more than one minor mistake on the genetic code of a species per generation, that species is ultimately doomed to extinction."

Assumes that ALL members of a species have the same mutation in exactly the same place at the same time... given your insane misunderstanding of reality, I stopped reading there.

6/4/2012 9:18:27 AM

#1409757
Berny

First, science will not take the supernatural into account because it cannot be shown conclusively to exist.
Second, what conclusive evidence of our "creation"? No such evidence exists.
You fail.

6/4/2012 9:23:41 AM

#1409758
Swede

You mean mistakes like turning off our Vitamin C creating gene, or giving us eyes with blind spots?
Mistakes like these make sense as natural processes, but they don't make sense if an "unimaginably intelligent designer" created us. What was his purpose of giving us these flaws, while other species have functioning Vitamin C creating genes and eyes with no blind spots? Furthermore; who created the creator, where did he come from?

Not all changes in our DNA are mistakes or errors, stupid. Many of them are beneficial to us and help us survive. Just look at cats with opposable "thumbs". Is that a loss of functioning information?

Dr Michael Behe had his chance to show the world what a superior system creationism is, in the Kitzmiller vs Dover trial. Instead he made a massive fool of himself and forced the judge to conclude that Intelligent Design is nothing other than religious myths. Dr Behe wasn't buried or ignored, he was allowed to say his piece, loud and clear. This is the best way of discrediting creationism and ID; get it out into the open and put it against real science, and every sane person can see that they are clearly not scientific at all.

6/4/2012 9:25:07 AM

#1409779
Ludd

Science, by it's definition, does not deal with the 'supernatural' because the supposed 'supernatural' can not be tested empirically, dipshit. That and it doesn't exist.

And using Behe as a reference??? LOL LOL LOL. What? No Hovind?

6/4/2012 10:21:49 AM

#1409782
Mapar

The 'minor mistakes' get FUCKING KILLED. That's how nature corrects mutations that harm an organism, because its survivability is lower than the others of his species.

6/4/2012 10:29:26 AM

#1409786
Oh My Dog!

Mutations do build up in pseudogenes, genes that are no longer functional, but have no or little effect. Pseudogenes are where most mutations occur because of selective pressures against them.

Functional genes are quite stable and mutate at a much slower rate.

We can read our evolutionary history in our pseudogenes.

6/4/2012 10:35:41 AM

#1409787
Draken

For the last 50 years, it has been acknowledged that if there is more than one minor mistake on the genetic code of a species per generation, that species is ultimately doomed to extinction.

[citation needed][that is not Behe]

6/4/2012 10:42:19 AM

#1409797
Skatepunk

The hard-core creationists are slowly dying, Brendan Rizzo.

There's a reason some red states are turning blue (Nevada, Virginia, etc)

6/4/2012 11:01:40 AM

#1409800
Zagen30

You do not understand evolution or genetics. Mutations are not all deleterious, and in fact their beneficial/deleterious/neutral nature often depends on the environment.

It is because of the “prime directive” of science (i.e. we must explain everything via evolution)

It's funny how I got an engineering degree from a highly rated math/science/engineering college and never once recall hearing about how evolution explains transistor behavior, or how iron behaves under different conditions, or in fact basically everything I learned. The one time I clearly remember hearing about evolution was the one biology course we were all required to take. Maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention in those other classes.

For instance, suppose our genetic code was similar to a textbook full of information and each subsequent copy of the textbook had a few letters randomly changed. Natural selection would be like the test taken by everyone who had read each unique textbook with its individual set of errors.

Except that a question on a test usually only has one right answer, while survival has many "answers." Plants are alive just as much as we are, albeit they get the energy needed for growth and reproduction in a way that we cannot.

The obvious question of ‘where did all of the original information come from?’ is also being ignored

No, it's not. It's a field of study that we've found to be difficult to study, but that doesn't mean we've thrown out hands up and given up or tried to sweep the issue under the rug. In addition, many religious people have managed to incorporate evolution into their spiritual beliefs, since evolution does not, in fact, completely rule out a deity or deities.

6/4/2012 11:11:50 AM
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