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Quote# 87358

Same-sex marriage seemed to be detrimental to Massachusetts; as I recall, real estate prices subsequently declined. In contrast, the short-term and long-term economic benefits of the traditional family are difficult to deny.

["Could I ask what evidence you rely on to draw that connection between same-sex marriage and a decline in real estate prices in Massachusetts?"]

I looked at the real estate market. The data is surely available for anyone else to review.
Real estate values depend on strong families and a growing economic base. That's not same-sex marriage.

["That is ridiculous. Canada, which has accepted same sex marriage for the past 2 decades, has enjoyed a significantly stronger economy than the US."]

In Canada there is no choice given to citizens about the issue: same-sex marriage is imposed throughout the nation. In the United States, there is high mobility away from states that impose same-sex marriage toward states that recognize how important traditional marriage is to long-term prosperity.

Andy Schlafly, Conservapedia 49 Comments [5/17/2012 2:36:29 AM]
Fundie Index: 51
Submitted By: Night Jaguar
WTF?! || meh
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#1404112
Power Skunk

Correlation, causation, and all that jazz.
And something tells me that the drop in real estate prices came just as the entire economy went to hell about 2008.
Shitfly here picking and choosing his data points again. I don't even have any weirdness to apply here.

5/17/2012 2:41:21 AM
#1404113
anevilmeme

Edgar Allen Schlafly, the zen master of Poe.

Probably says that on his business card.

5/17/2012 2:42:31 AM
#1404116
Often Partisan

Argumentum ad House Prices? Didn't know Andy followed the Daily Mail!

5/17/2012 2:47:35 AM
#1404132
Filin De Blanc

I bet Schafly blames losing his keys on same-sex marriage, too.

5/17/2012 3:16:05 AM
#1404133
Schneeflittchen

I'm always amazed how Schlafly remains so consistently opposed to facts. I mean, it's pretty much the only coherent thing about his schtick.

What an idiot.


5/17/2012 3:18:39 AM
#1404134


Unfortunately, that's not entirely accurate: Canada has only recognized same-sex marriages nation-wide since 2005, in some provinces since 2003, and extended most marriage-related legal benefits to cohabiting same-sex couples since 1999. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Canada.

Also, it's not clear that Canada as a "significantly stronger economy than the US", especially if considered over the past two decades. The recent recession affected Canada much less than the US, but many of the standard economic indicators still favour the US. Before the recession, the US was generally accepted as having a stronger economy than Canada.

That said, Schlafly's suggestion that the purported correlation between declining real estate prices and same-sex marriage is causal is, of course, laughable.

5/17/2012 3:22:12 AM
#1404147
Extraintrovert

I never understood the idea of using real estate prices as some sort of indicator as to the health of either the industry and/or the economy as a whole. After all, if price was the ultimate determiner of quality, health care in the US would be leagues ahead of every other developed nation (hint: it isn't).

Oh, and Schlafly is a nitwit, yadda yadda.

5/17/2012 4:09:36 AM
#1404148
Swede

Real estate values depend on strong families and a growing economic base. That's not same-sex marriage.
It could be. A strong family doesn't necessarily mean mom-dad-son-daughter. It could mean Mia-Sue-dog or Rob-Bob-two cats. Plus, children cost a lot of money, you know. Couples without kids have more money to put on real estate.

Fewer and fewer people get married in Sweden. People just live together, indefinitely, perhaps combining the baptism of their third child with a small wedding. We seem to be doing fairly OK, economic-wise, anyway.

5/17/2012 4:10:58 AM
#1404157
AJ

You know, he's right. A year or so after MA introduced same-sex marriage housing prices in the state peaked:
http://www.forecast-chart.com/house-price-massachusetts.html


Of course, that couldn't be part of a nationwide trend could it?
http://www.forecast-chart.com/house-price-usa.html


Seriously, how could Andy have missed that the financial downturn was not only a national but global issue, and same-sex marriage had fuck-all to do with it?

5/17/2012 4:43:43 AM
#1404162
The Watcher

This sounds like a good argument for making gay marriage legal nationwide. Well, actually, it sounds like a stupid argument, but one right up Andy's alley.

5/17/2012 4:55:26 AM
#1404165
Brendan Rizzo

Is he saying that gay marriage caused the Great Recession?

5/17/2012 4:58:38 AM
#1404171
sandchigger

So what I'm hearing is that to avoid any future economic bubbles we should have national marriages for any two people, regardless of their individual genders. Well shit, Schlafly, I'm ok with giving you that one.

5/17/2012 5:15:01 AM
#1404179
Mister Spak

"In the United States, there is high mobility away from states that impose same-sex marriage "

Are they moving at relativistic speed? Because that would prove the connection between the Theory of Relativity and liberal immorality.


5/17/2012 5:29:16 AM
#1404194
dionysus

That sounds like an argument for a federal law allowing gay marriage. After all, you admitted that it works in Canada.

5/17/2012 6:31:45 AM
#1404228
Mayhem

I live in Massachusetts. The job market has decreased steadily since the appearance of Andy Schlafly. We should get rid of him so that the market will get better.

5/17/2012 7:41:32 AM
#1404238
Doubting Thomas

First of all, real estate prices have been in the crapper all over the country since the recession started.

Secondly, I was totally unaware that Canadian citizens were forced to marry members of the same gender whether they want to or not.

Thirdly, and most importantly, Andy Schafly is a total dumbass idiot.

5/17/2012 7:51:43 AM
#1404239
Thinking Allowed

Hey Andy, you do realize that the housing market crashed in all states, not just Massachusetts. If you're going to use that logic, states that ban same sex marriage is detrimental to the U.S. as well.

5/17/2012 7:52:30 AM
#1404241
Sevagram

Welcome to Andy Schlafly's masterclass in avoiding the question!

5/17/2012 7:53:53 AM
#1404250
John

The top five states for real estate decline are Idaho, Arizona, Florida, Michigan and Illinois. All but Illinois ban same-sex marriage by Constitution. Illinois bans same-sex marriage by statute, but allows certain same-sex civil unions. Massachusetts RE prices actually rose in 2011 if you exclude distressed sales.

So not only would correlation not show cause, making the whole argument ridiculous on its face, Andy didn't even get the correlation right.

5/17/2012 8:06:03 AM
#1404257
Reynardine

No. That north-to-south move is called "snowbirding", and in Florida, it's been going on since 1920.

5/17/2012 8:23:42 AM
#1404258
Flah

"In Canada there is no choice given to citizens about the issue: same-sex marriage is imposed throughout the nation."

It's true, you know. We got the idea from Logan's Run. If a man doesn't get into a relationship with a woman by age 30, we have to marry a dude instead.

5/17/2012 8:36:59 AM
#1404270
Berny

Real estate prices have tanked everywhere in the USA.
It has everything to do with a market bubble aggravated by the banks and fuck-all to do with same-sex marriage.

5/17/2012 9:11:45 AM
#1404276


You know less about Canada than you do about economics, which in turn you wouldn't know from your own asshole.

5/17/2012 10:25:36 AM
#1404282
shykid

"Same-sex marriage seemed to be detrimental to Massachusetts; as I recall, real estate prices subsequently declined."

At first, I thought for sure this was going to be from The Daily Mail.

That aside, correlation does not equal causation, etc. But just for funsies, let's assume you're right. If same-sex marriage caused a decline in housing prices, then it would be because bigots either moved away (increase in supply) or no longer wanted to move in (decrease in demand), pretty much the opposite of "detrimental" in my book.

5/17/2012 10:49:42 AM
#1404299
myheadhurts

In areas where two employed males live together and choose not to raise children, housing prices are typically high and only see modest dips during bad economies.

In contrast, couples that have an adult living at home and raising children, the housing prices tend to be lower and hit harder by bad economies. The most likely couples to have a spouse at home, heterosexual (mom being the usual unemployed).

For the very worst house situation, single mothers unable to work.

So it all comes down to, we should get rid of women. (thank you for participating in bad conclusions and solutions)

5/17/2012 11:47:19 AM
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