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#1402233
shykid
The fact that people like this exist in an era in which nuclear weapons also exist frightens me.
5/13/2012 2:23:09 PM
#1402239
checkmate
Not necessarily the drowning test
Why not?
This shows that you don't really believe what you wrote. Either trial by ordeal is good or it isn't. So why not use the drowning test? Isn't God going to protect the innocent?
Why not have them choose a knight who will fight a church chosen knight to the death?
We could do this today. Why not? Why not throw them off the Empire State Building? God will let the innocent fly. Shoot a bullet point blank through their heads. God will protect the innocent.
It's so easy. When God's involved, hold no stops, go all the way. God's never wrong and he never misses an appointment.
5/13/2012 2:37:50 PM
#1402245
Alencon
"How do we know that not a single one of the accused was a witch?"
Let's see, let me think about this carefully. Oh, I know, maybe because THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS AS WITCHES.
At least not of the Christian variety. There are Wiccan Witches but they're just plain folks.
5/13/2012 2:49:49 PM
#1402251
Osiris
How the hell does someone like you even manage to log onto to the Internet? Shouldn't your reaction be "Moving pictures and sounds are coming out of this tiny box? Burn the witch!"
5/13/2012 3:09:30 PM
#1402279
Old Viking
Enough of this half-wit, please.
5/13/2012 4:03:59 PM
#1402290
CleverScreenName
I don't think it's possible to reason with someone who thinks trial by ordeal is a good idea.
5/13/2012 4:20:00 PM
#1402328
sif...
"When people are accused and you have a trial by ordeal to see if they are innocent or guilty so long as those people believe in God and are innocent then God will cause the boils to heal by the deadline for the verdict."
So.. just like the thinking back then... if the boils healed quickly, then they are a witch.. if the boils heal at normal, human speed, then God didn't see fit to heal them quickly.. OMG they're a witch!.. please...
5/13/2012 6:40:00 PM
#1402333
Trial by ordeal is nothing but a charade (Morton's fork) used by those in power to persecute those they don't like. Anything can be interpreted to condemn someone as a witch; take the scalding for example:
- If the boil heals, the individual obviously has supernatural powers and is therefore a witch.
- If the boil does not heal, the individual has obviously forsaken God and is therefore a witch.
This Christ fellow should really start having some sort of standard for his servants: their conduct reflects badly on the master.
5/13/2012 6:50:24 PM
#1402343
Karana
"and if those people lead virtuous lives oh well they went to heaven anyways"
The end justifies the means then hmm? Couldn't this be used as justification to kill everyone on the planet?
5/13/2012 7:38:44 PM
#1402392
Extraintrovert
"It's only rarely that someone is falsely convicted, and if those people lead virtuous lives oh well they went to heaven anyways."
Translation: Kill em all and let God sort them out. Yeah, that's exactly what Christ wanted.
@Berny
If they are a Poe, then they are the most dedicated one I've seen since the writer of My Immortal.
5/13/2012 9:58:36 PM
#1402445
"Oh well they went to Heaven anyway".
Everything that is wrong with religion, right there. Fuck you and your Laissez faire attitude towards human life.
5/14/2012 1:28:00 AM
#1402555
fishtank
What a SICK person.
5/14/2012 5:36:31 AM
#1402638
WWWWolf
> How do we know that not a single one of the accused was a witch?
Because the methodology was obviously bogus and everyone was biased?
> What evidence do I have? They put them on trial and found them guilty.
Yes, because we must always assume that the law and the process used at some parts of the history somewhere were always unquestionably correct.
What do you think of, say, Mesoamerican human sacrifice practices? By your logic, they were completely awesome. Should we bring them back? (I'm not mentioning certain practices in war-time Central Europe, but you'll of course think they were completely appropriate at the time, right?)
> Not necessarily the drowning test, but maybe having them scalded and seeing how fast the boils heal.
And how do you know that's an effective way of determining whether or not the accused is a witch?
How do you know any of the methods used back in the day were at all effective? They were designed by humans, after all.
You're just replacing made-up shit with more made-up shit.
5/14/2012 7:13:59 AM
#1402653
JSS
Okay, if God finds you innocent and unworthy of execution, he'll come down physically into the room I'm in to tell me so within the next five seconds...
4...
3...
2...
1...
Nothing. Eh, but that's trial by ordeal for you. The fairest way to determine someone's guilt. Burn the heathen!
5/14/2012 7:31:30 AM
#1402714
Javascap
Damn, I use that image a lot on here.
5/14/2012 9:23:48 AM
#1402785
Giveitaday
How do we know that not a single one of the accused was a witch?
Depends highly on your definition of "witch"
I haven't seen any proof in those history books. The historians are just assuming that, because we've been mislead to believe that witches aren't real. Speculation is not proof.
Speculation is exactly what you are doing. Historians aren't simply "assuming" the charges were baseless, they are doing so based on the fact that magic and witchcraft have not, and indeed cannot be demonstrated to actually exist.
What evidence do I have?
None.
They put them on trial and found them guilty.
And no one has ever been wrongly convicted, especially in trials that allowed such miscarriages of justice as hearsay and "spectral" evidence?
but still most of the time the jury arrives at the right verdict. It's only rarely that someone is falsely convicted
First, you know that how? What insight into those cases do you have that permits you to know, hundreds of years after the fact, the actual culpability of the accused?
Second, How can the jury's verdict be anything but suspect when the evidence before them mostly consisted of the aforementioned hearsay and spectral evidence, but often included such gems as confessions elicited under torture?
When people are accused and you have a trial by ordeal to see if they are innocent or guilty so long as those people believe in God and are innocent then God will cause the boils to heal by the deadline for the verdict.
If trial by ordeal had any basis in fact then why doesn't your "god" just simply prevent the ordeal from harming an innocent altogether rather than have guilt or innocence subject to the vagaries of the human condition such as infections?
5/14/2012 12:07:43 PM
#1402809
Dr. Razark
Ok, I accept your premise. Trial by ordeal of scalding water to determine whether the accused is a witch. This is, of course, the best and only way to determine the truth.
*ahem*
I, Dr. Razark, do hereby formally accuse you, ServantofChrist, of witchcraft.
You will be posting video of your trial to youtube, so we can verify it, right?
5/14/2012 12:54:32 PM
#1403088
Godlesspanther
THis Servantofxrist should be put into a Groundhogs Day scenario. He has to live the same day over and over and over until he quits being an asshole.
5/15/2012 12:31:06 AM
#1403341
aaa
Tell me a good reason to not execute you for participating in crimes against humanity.
5/15/2012 7:25:50 AM
#1403541
Agahnim
"How do we know that not a single one of the accused was a witch?"
Because witches are imaginary.
5/15/2012 2:06:35 PM
#1403545
Quantum Mechanic
Originally posted in 1610.
5/15/2012 2:08:57 PM
#1404069
\m/>_<\m/
just so we're clear. the church forbade the ordalie (ordeal) sometime during the middle ages. as in, try the 900's (for the first ban, iirc). why? travesty of faith.
if it ain't a poe, then i don't want to live on this planet anymore... or get pay-per-view on those suckers suffering, i don't care, i'm not sectarian.
5/16/2012 6:56:25 PM
#1413401
Witch trials in a nutshell: We're going to kill you slowly now, and if you miraculously survive we will kill you again with fire.
Seeing as the 'witches' were all accused of having unholy superpowers that run anywhere between making people fall over dead just by hating them and blighting an entire country so nothing grows and yet none of the assholes running these 'trials' spontaneously combusted I'm firmly in the camp that calls bullshit on every single one.
6/15/2012 1:31:52 PM
#1502077
Doomy Doom
"And what dowe burn besides witches?"
"...MORE WITCHES!"
2/4/2013 1:15:39 PM
#1502117
xyz
> How do we know that not a single one of the accused was a witch?
Because there was never a shred of evidence that any of them even did witchcraft.
> The historians are just assuming that, because we've been mislead to believe that witches aren't real.
No one has been mislead. Witches aren't real.
> They put them on trial and found them guilty.
There were no trials.
> 1 or 2 may have been innocent.
All of them were innocent.
> but maybe having them scalded and seeing how fast the boils heal. When people are accused and you have a trial by ordeal to see if they are innocent or guilty so long as those people believe in God and are innocent then God will cause the boils to heal by the deadline for the verdict.
God has never healed anyone before, so why would he start now?
Oh wait, he doesn't exist. Guess he won't be starting now.
2/4/2013 2:47:46 PM
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