1 2 3 4 5
#1390931
Stormwarden
You honestly believe God is just, His4Life? Isaiah 45:7, try again, along with Elisha and the Bear, the murder of the Midianites, the flood, the fact that God kills many more people than Satan...
You'll have to forgive me if I'm not willing to worship an evil SOB.
4/9/2012 5:49:01 PM
#1390937
His4Life
Filin, that is the wrong analogy. It would be more like if I warned you that a rapist was trying to sodomize you and you continually ignored my warnings. Finally the rapist came to your house, and to save you, I let him rape me while you got away. Instead of being grateful, you then turn around and mock me and reject everything I did for you. At that point, I would say "ok, he's all yours. There's nothing more I can do to save you." See what I mean?
4/9/2012 6:50:48 PM
#1390957
Filin De Blanc
His4Life: Except in your belief system, the person doing the warning is the one who released the rapist and pointed him at me in the first place.
4/10/2012 12:16:55 AM
#1390991
His4Life
I don't see it that way. Assuming that the rapist in the analogy is the devil, I would say it's that the person doing the saving (God/Christ) respects your freedom enough to let you bend over and submit to the rapist (for eternity) if you choose to, but will do everything he can to save you short of violating your own freedom to choose to reject that salvation.
4/10/2012 5:02:26 AM
#1390994
Filin De Blanc
His4Life: That's absurd. In this analogy, no-one is choosing to submit to the rapist, they're just choosing not to submit to the supposed saviour. To which the saviour responds "well fuck you then" and throws the protagonist to the rapist. Don't try to dress it up as "God respects your freedom of choice!" That's the exact opposite of what's going on here: the only choices you're being offered are "submit to me, or be raped by him". If God really respected our freedoms, he would give us the option to submit neither to him nor the devil.
4/10/2012 5:15:19 AM
#1391116
His4Life
Unfortunately, that choice doesn't exist, but not because of God - it's because the devil will not leave us in peace and is dead set on destroying us. God is happy to let us go our own way, but going our own may means walking right into the devil's waiting clutches.
4/10/2012 8:08:35 PM
#1391129
Osiris
@His4Life: So why doesn't God just kill the devil?
4/10/2012 11:11:51 PM
#1391155
Filin De Blanc
What Osiris said. God seems here to be some kind of corrupt police officer who'll only protect select people he likes from the bad guys, and won't actually do a damn thing to stop the bad guys from continuing to ply their evil trade.
4/11/2012 3:24:34 AM
#1391193
His4Life
Hm. My Bible is pretty clear about the devil's fate, Osiris:
Revelation 20:10 - And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
4/11/2012 4:42:09 AM
#1391195
Filin De Blanc
So God has gotten rid of the Devil, but somehow the Devil will be able to rape us all anyway?
4/11/2012 4:43:51 AM
#1391363
Osiris
@His4Life: Let me reiterate my question. Why doesn't God erase Satan from existence, permanently? Why doesn't he do the same to Hell? Why did it take him thousands of years after the Fall from Eden to do something about sin? And why does his solution to sin come with so many strings and conditions attached that millions of people still go to Hell every year, and have done so for 2,000 years?
4/11/2012 10:05:41 AM
#1391518
Alessia
...the gay people I know who are married aren't destroying marriage. <sarcasm> People who get married for like a day, people who don't get married for love...they don't destroy marriage, apparently, just gay people. </sarcasm>
4/11/2012 6:31:04 PM
#1391708
@Alessia
Actually, interestingly enough, for the greater part of human history love was only a secondary factor in deciding who to marry (indeed, it still is in many parts of the world today). However, marriage has changed in modern times and I agree with you that a marriage done for reasons other than love (at least in the Western world) probably won't be the healthiest of marriages.
4/12/2012 10:19:53 AM
#1392496
His4Life
Jesus referred to hell as "the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." The devil is the only one who should be in hell; it wasn't made for you and me. However, God gives us the freedom to follow the devil in sin if we want, and if we choose to do that, then his justice demands that we also share the devil's fate. God will indeed take care of the devil one day; in fact, the devil's fate has been sealed since Jesus died ont he cross. But God gives us all the chance to choose which way we will go until then.
4/14/2012 1:09:15 PM
#1392500
Filin De Blanc
@His4Life: So God lets the Devil rape us for the time being why? Because he likes seeing people who don't believe in him suffer?
4/14/2012 1:19:40 PM
#1392784
His4Life
If you reject God, why would you expect him to protect you from the devil? By your choices, you are consciously or unconsciously choosing to serve the devil every time you sin; eventually God says "ok, have it your way. Enjoy bending over for your new master."
4/15/2012 9:36:13 AM
#1392785
His4Life
Also, it's important to note that the devil himself will eventually be cast into hell. The devil does not "rule" over hell. He has his season to torment sinners and lead people astray, but his fate is sealed.
4/15/2012 9:38:13 AM
#1392788
Filin De Blanc
"If you reject God, why would you expect him to protect you from the devil?"
Batman rescues people who don't like him personally, even people who've tried to kill him. Doctors operate on people they personally dislike. Why should it be acceptable for God to only protect people who are nice to him?
4/15/2012 9:43:32 AM
#1392790
Filin De Blanc
"He has his season to torment sinners and lead people astray, but his fate is sealed."
And God lets him have this season why? Why not just get rid of him now and avoid all the assraping?
4/15/2012 9:53:35 AM
#1392928
His4Life
No one is "nice" to God. There is nothing we can do for God that he cannot do for himself. We are admitted into his presence by grace (undeserved kindness) and grace alone. However, God cannot allow that into his presence which is unholy.
I am a strong believer in freewill. God allows the devil to speak his piece and lets us make a free will decision whether we will follow the devil or Him. Think of it like a cosmic "fairness doctrine." This is what the Book of Job is about. But, God will be proved right in the end and the devil and his followers will meet their unfortunate fate for rebelling against Him. The Bible says that God delays his vengeance because he is giving as many people as possible time to repent.
Filin, who are you following day by day? Is it him or Him?
4/15/2012 5:18:50 PM
#1392982
Filin De Blanc
So God gives us free will, but expects us to essentially abandon it and do everything he says otherwise we get raped? What a stand-up guy.
4/16/2012 1:36:55 AM
#1393101
His4Life
God will not rescue you from the consequences of your own choices.
4/16/2012 5:53:11 AM
#1393135
Filin De Blanc
But why does God insist on the choice being between "grovel before me" and "get thrown to the anal rapist"? If I told someone that they had to become my personal slave or I'd let a rapist get them, I would be considered a sociopathic bastard.
4/16/2012 6:44:07 AM
#1393392
His4Life
Filin, I understand the point you're making, but I see it differently. Think of it this way... if I said "come with me and I'll protect you from the rapist," and you said "no, that's ok, I can handle it myself" and I then kidnapped you, tied you up, stuffed you in the car to save you, would that be just? No. I'd be jailed for kidnapping you because I violated your free will to come or not come with me. God offers salvation and deliverance from the devil and his schemes, but he won't force that salvation onto anyone - otherwise, that would make *God* the spiritual equivalent of a rapist, forcing himself on those who choose not to accept him.
4/16/2012 6:24:38 PM
#1393478
Filin De Blanc
But God could easily spare us from the Devil without forcing us to be with God just by banishing the Devil, yet he doesn't. The criteria for receiving God's protection from the Devil involves basically doing everything God says, including stuff that leads to a horrible and unhappy life. That's not benevolent, that's cruel.
4/17/2012 2:55:21 AM
1 2 3 4 5