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Quote# 84070

I am an atheist of Jewish decent with no connection to Judaism. I just read the Old Testament (Holman Christian Standard Bible translation), which I guess you call the Torah. I loved the book, it is my favorite book now. But now I have a question about what I read.

The second half of the Old Testament is mostly about the fall of Israel to Babylon. This was certainly a holocaust. When I compare it to the recent (WW2) holocaust, I see them as very similar. My question is why Jews view them so differently?

The reason for the first holocaust was that Israel had become corrupt. Israel had absorbed the false beliefs of the surrounding cultures, and had lost all moral integrity. As a result, Israel was punished. This was in fact a good thing because Israel needed to be purified. A corrupt culture should be destroyed and one can hope that the remnant will become good. The Bible says that both the righteous and the wicked were punished in this holocaust, and this is inevitable when there is such violence.

I see the recent holocaust as being more or less the same story. The Jews absorbed and participated in the Liberal culture of Europe. Liberalism is no better than worshipping Baal. The vast majority of the Jews in Europe had absorbed Liberalism, just as most Jews before the fall to Babylon worshipped Baal. The Wiemar Republic was a particularly liberal society which incorporated many Jews. The liberal Jews lost all morality and were/are basically corrupt. The Nazis played the same role that Babylon had played in the earlier holocaust.

The main difference between these two holocausts in my mind is that modern Jews have misunderstood the recent holocaust. They portray themselves as victims without accepting any responsibility for their participation in Liberalism. While I bring up the issue of why there is this difference mostly for curiosity, there is a practical point here. If Jews don't learn the right lesson, then history will repeat itself soon and there will be yet another holocaust. I would prefer that that be avoided.

fschmidt, CoAlpha Brotherhood 89 Comments [10/2/2011 4:39:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 99
WTF?! || meh
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#1337025
DevilsChaplain

fschmidt makes a post and there's nothing in it about rape. I'm amazed.

10/2/2011 10:25:24 AM
#1337033
Brianisha

If youre an ex christian, im the king of scotland, and im female mind you.

10/2/2011 10:38:26 AM
#1337039
Olivia

OH GOD. Click on the link. The CoAlpha Brotherhood is yet another bros-before-hos message board, as I'm sure you'll be shocked to learn, and the pinned post at the top is a little theory of fschmidt's explaining the "co-alpha male" philosophy as regards chimps -- what if the beta/omega males banded together when they tried to impress the females? Then they could share them, and the old alpha male couldn't stop them from having sex no matter how much he outshone them individually! -- and the replies of a bunch of other users treating it like they're joining Fight Club. The psychological projection and veneer of scientific detachment are hilarious... and there's the one guy who politely points out that this sounds like a bunch of dudes on the Internet whining about how they can't get laid, and he doesn't really think that will be very effective, somehow.

10/2/2011 11:02:00 AM
#1337044
PAnz

oi
The holocost was because a mad man wanted to pawn all of life's problems off on someone else. Jews were an acceptable target

10/2/2011 11:08:57 AM
#1337049
Brendan Rizzo

Is this the same fschmidt as the guy from love-shy? If it is, then I am not surprised. He is a total reactionary. The only thing that would not make him perfectly at home in the fourteenth century is the fact that he is an atheist. Of course, Joseph Stalin already proved that atheists can be complete monsters, (not to mention crazy sons of bitches) so it's not like we needed any more evidence... but then again, this site can get rather antitheistic occasionally, so maybe people on here do need to be reminded?

10/2/2011 11:16:51 AM
#1337057
Auratwilight

You are not an atheist.

10/2/2011 12:06:45 PM
#1337058
Doubting Thomas

If you're really an atheist, why do you believe that the Jews were or had to have been "punished" or are worried about Baal worship? And why do you put so much stock in ancient religious scribblings being true about anything?

10/2/2011 12:11:49 PM
#1337069
Jezebel's Evil Sister

An "atheist" who believes in Divine Retribution?

This fool can't even keep his lies straight from one paragraph to the next.

10/2/2011 12:45:23 PM
#1337077
checkmate

fschmidt's post is an insult to human intelligence.

10/2/2011 1:32:20 PM
#1337088
TheJebusFire

Thanks for making atheists look like assholes.

10/2/2011 2:18:25 PM
#1337093
Anon

>>I am an atheist of Jewish descent with no connection to Judaism<<

This cannot possibly be true. According to Jewish tradition, anyone who is born of a Jewish mother or a convert is a Jew. A considerable fraction of the Jewish population is atheist or agnostic.

So fschmidt may be an atheist of Jewish descent and a Jew, or an atheist not of Jewish descent, or not an atheist, but he cannot be "of Jewish descent" and not a Jew at the same time.

Given the available evidence, I'll expect that the truth is "not an atheist".

10/2/2011 2:41:54 PM
#1337097
casewithscience

Dear fschmidt

You are officially excommunicated from atheism.

Regards
Casewithscience
Atheist Pope

10/2/2011 2:52:58 PM
#1337101
Old Viking

Well I'm an atheist, and I don't worship Baal. I did, however, play footbaal in high school.

10/2/2011 3:15:36 PM
#1337117
farpadokly

"Israel was punished... purified". So how can you be an atheist if you believe this? Who was doing the punishing if not God?
"This was in fact a good thing... the righteous and the wicked were punished in this holocaust". So mass killing of innocent people is a good thing?
So let me sum this up: 1. There is no God, but he punished Israel for becoming corrupt.
2. This was a good thing, but it will happen again and I would prefer to avoid it.
3. Ancient Babylon is Nazi Germany.
4. Jews ought to keep themselves separate, and not mix with others.
5. The holocaust was the Jew's fault, because the Weimar Republic was liberal.
6. Nazis were acting as righteous agents of a God you don't believe in.
8. All those people that died in concentration camps were liberals and ought to have taken responsibility for their liberalism and stopped acting like victims.
I've never read such confused, bigoted, self-hating bullshit in my life.

10/2/2011 4:18:27 PM
#1337120


There is no way you're an atheist. You're not even a good liar.

10/2/2011 4:40:37 PM
#1337127
cdcdrr

Hey, do you know why Jews embraced liberalism and socialism? Because conservative christianity persecuted them! And how exactly did this corrupt them? Does the right to freedom of religion and freedom from discrimination corrupt them? Are you saying they should have sticked to themselves and remain distrusted, never seeking acceptance for their fiath and race? Because that would simply allow anti-Semitism to linger on and fester. Are you actually saying the Holocaust was a catch-22? Oh wait, you are. Brilliant.

10/2/2011 5:17:00 PM
#1337131
Wehpudicabok

Concern-trolling genocide victims. Classy.

10/2/2011 6:19:18 PM
#1337146
fschmidt

@Doubting Thomas
Please read "Why I am a Reactionary" which explains why I put stock in religion.
http://www.coalpha.org/Why-I-am-a-Reactionary-tp6244329p6244329.html

@Anon
I am technically a Jew but at the time I wrote this, I had little knowledge of Judaism. But since then I have joined an Orthodox Jewish synagogue which I enjoy.

@casewithscience
Thank you for excommunicating me from atheism. I have since changed my position because atheists are liberals. So now I say that I believe in God but I define God as the laws of nature. This allows me to be religious without accepting the supernatural nonsense.

@farpadokly
The holocaust was a bad thing. Most of my family died in it. I am just trying to understand the cause. Jews should remain separate from corrupt cultures like liberalism. Many who died in the holocaust were not liberals and did not deserve it. But the lesson taught in the Tanakh is that when a culture becomes corrupt, all suffer equally, both the righteous and the evil. This isn't supernatural justice, it is the justice of nature. When a culture becomes corrupt, it is weakened and suffers. Many other culture suffered similarly as they declined and fell. Western culture will also suffer eventually as liberalism causes its decay. Neither the Nazis nor the Babylonians were righteous agents. They simply happened to be the power of the time that beat the Jewish culture that had been weakened by corruption.

10/2/2011 7:15:21 PM
#1337158


Hey fschmidt, it's Unrequited Lust. I submitted this. Your rape quote is still #3. Let's see if this beats it.

10/2/2011 8:50:51 PM
#1337160
fschmidt

Thank you Unrequited Lust. It is an honor to be hated by liberals.

10/2/2011 9:10:03 PM
#1337161


Out of curiosity, how did you even find out about this?

Also, for the sake of everyone here, it might be helpful if you defined what you mean by "liberalism."

10/2/2011 9:15:08 PM
#1337162
dharmicdalek

And it is an honor to be hated by a pro-rape caveman cunt like you, good fschmidt.

10/2/2011 9:50:04 PM
#1337169
Raised by Horses

"I am an atheist of Jewish decent with no connection to Judaism."

Nice to meet you. I'm an expatriate Venutian come to learn of your Earthly ways.

"I just read the Old Testament (Holman Christian Standard Bible translation), which I guess you call the Torah. I loved the book, it is my favorite book now. But now I have a question about what I read."

I'm quite partial to the works of De Sade, myself. I was thinking about staging a mass re-enactment sometime.

10/2/2011 10:58:47 PM
#1337173
Extraintrovert

@fschmidt

The facts are against you, unfortunately. The Jews suffered in the holocaust because they, just like every other time they suffered in their long and depressing history, were a minority with little political power that served as a convenient scapegoat for the cruel and the stupid alike to blame for their own problems, much like homosexuals are blamed in parts of the world. Cultures decline and/or collapse for many reasons, from overwhelming external threats to massive internal mismanagement to simple isolationism, but those doing so because of liberalism are curiously few. Indeed, social conservatism can be indicated as a cause of a society's collapse more than social liberalism can be indicated (economic liberalism and economic conservatism are different matters, however I doubt you are referring to them). Furthermore, almost all of the nations with the highest standards of living are overwhelmingly liberal, both economically and socially (aside from Japan, which is shockingly conservative in a lot of areas), even the USA becoming more liberal in spite of its incredibly powerful conservative movements, though its economic liberalism is simultaneously doing a lot of damage.

I know you probably won't consider any of this; I'm simply typing this as a more constructive way of expressing my incoherent rage.

10/2/2011 11:12:58 PM
#1337175
TB Tabby

You claim to be an atheist, yet you believe misfortunes that happen to people are punishments for what they believe. You'll forgive me if I'm skeptical of your claim.

10/2/2011 11:23:06 PM
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