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Yes, Barack Obama is way ahead of you. But then so are fungi.
9/26/2010 2:44:29 PM
Don't you have enough to worry about, what with Halloween and the War on Christmas and all?
9/26/2010 2:47:54 PM
Well, at the very least, Jefferson said that Muslims were perfectly acceptable in the United States. I'm sure the Founders had a better idea of what's acceptable in the nation than you.
I somehow don't think this is helping your status as an expert on Islam (yes, I think this is THE Robert Spencer). Especially not your mistaken belief that a full-bore mosque is being built at the ruins.
9/26/2010 2:49:10 PM
Alex, I'll take "Treaty of Tripoli" for 200...
9/26/2010 2:49:58 PM
Arabic numerals perhaps?
9/26/2010 2:52:06 PM
@BJD: Developed by Hindus, and transmitted to the West by Muslims, but not American ones.
In fact, although Islam has not "always" been a part of America, it has been here since very early on; however, I call bullshit on "extraordinary contributions."
9/26/2010 3:09:59 PM
perhaps christopher should ponder upon the importance of the Zero.
9/26/2010 3:16:36 PM
Muslims were among the many slaves here from the beginning. I feel compelled to ask, are you so dumb that you cannot spot standard platitudes when you hear them?
9/26/2010 3:19:35 PM
Numbers I believe and if I'm not mistaken chess. You want names? That'll take a long time but I am sure we can find names of Muslims in World War I and II. Hell possibly even civil and revolutionary wars.
9/26/2010 3:44:23 PM
Arabs and Muslims were in the Americas before Columbus, mingling with the Native American tribes and marrying them, leading to a great integration between Muslims and Native Americans. They were also on Christopher Columbus' ships when he "discovered" America, they came here after Columbus as explorers and they were brought here as slaves from Africa as well.
Spencer is one of the leaders of the Islamophobic movement in the US who would deny anything positive the Muslims did. When it was pointed out the huge number of Muslims that denounced terrorism and terrorist acts, he still wasnt satisfied and said that they didnt mean it. This ratfaced real life troll would deny the importance of Muslims during the discovery and exploration of America. He would deny the Muslims brought here as slaves and who fought during the civil war. He would deny the Muslims and their influence and support of the civil rights movement. He would also deny that one of the founders of Youtube was a Muslim... You canot win against this rat, best to let him crawl back into his hole before he spreads more disease. Hey Spencer: why are there cities in the USA called Medina and other Muslim names? Think before you opene your mouth.
And regarding the 0: yes, it was invented in India and was brought to the rest of the world by the Muslims and their empire, perfectly complementing their own numerals.
9/26/2010 3:44:25 PM
@C_V: First developed as a placeholder by the Babylonians, and as an actual number by the Indians. The latter was brought to the West by the Arabs, who got it from the Persians, who got it from the Indians.
9/26/2010 3:45:41 PM
There. Is it really hard to do a little goddamn research before you spew crap on the internet? Yup, I guess it is.
9/26/2010 3:52:01 PM
Allegory for Jesus
"Smarter bets would be on its instead growing bolder than ever."
Why exactly? How is complimenting domestic Muslims going to make foreign Muslim terrorists more terroristy? I would hardly believe that it is going to make them less terroristy, but I doubt even more that they are going to be emboldened to blow us up more if we are essentially complimenting them. WTF?
9/26/2010 3:59:47 PM
While I can't stand the fundies anymore than most 'normal' people can, I call BS on Obama's claim that Islam has ALWAYS been a part of America - it hasn't - or that American Muslims have made 'extra-ordinary' contributions to our country. They haven't - or at least, I can't think of ANY!
Much as I hate to do so, I have to agree with Mr. Fundie on this one. Obama needs to stop spewing such BS.
9/26/2010 4:07:53 PM
There you go, bigot.
9/26/2010 4:17:27 PM
Dear Mr. / Ms. Anonymous,
Right... Muslimwiki, of course.
Anyway, tt's possible that many of the Spanish conquistadors were of Moorish origins and that African Muslims may have come to America as slaves. But that did not make them 'mainstream' (in the sense that Obama implies they were).
And, what of 'extra-ordinary' contributions to America? Name a few! I don't know what got your knickers in such a bunch, but BS is BS, even if Obama spouts it.
9/26/2010 4:22:28 PM
Will Obama provide us with a list of the Muslim Founding Fathers, the Muslim heroes of the American Revolution, the names of the Muslims killed fighting in the Civil War, World War I, and World War II
Why should he? If some moron insists I prove 2+2=4, do I have to go through it? Why should Obama provide you with something you could look up on the Internet. If you can't use Google, maybe you should go back to 1994 and stay there.
9/26/2010 4:30:26 PM
Muslims pioneered algebra, dammit.
9/26/2010 4:30:34 PM
Yes, Muslimwiki. Its meant to be a stepping stone towards other sources which you can find for yourself. Obviously, that's impossible for you.
I'm not talking about Spaniash conquistadors. I'm talking pre-Columbus events. I'm taking explorers after Columbus. I'm talking Muslim Native American tribes. I'm talking slaves brought here. And if you dont think slaves or Native Americans were a considerable part of society back then, there is no hope for you. Then you have slaves fighting in the civil war. Much closer, in the last century, you have the incredible contributions made by Muslims in the civil rights movements. Or did you think Malcolm X and his followers were Buddhist? Or if that's not mainstream enough for you, you have the likes of Muhammad Ali. Or what about the numerous musicians with record albums? Are they not mainstream? What about the professors, the innovators, the inventors? The policemen, the soldiers, the firefighters, the doctors? That's where I'll leave it by now because you are starting another argument about something being mainstream. How many cities have Muslim names in the US?
I'm afraid you yourself dont know what you want to talk about, but just dont want to acknowledge that Muslims have been in America way before Spencers ratfaced ancestors even set foot in America.
9/26/2010 4:37:46 PM
Would it stop your infernal dieseling on the Islamic Center if we built a casino at "Ground Zero"? It would pay homage to the memory of all the Wall Street types that gambled with other people's money. I don't often speak ill of the dead, and most of the casualties were ordinary citizens, but some of those who died were reckoned to be complete bastards right up to a minute before they were enshrined as heroes for being in the wrong place at the right time. The whole injured sensibilities act is beginning to make me sick. Unless you're a survivor, or a surviving family member, wave your own bloody shirt!
9/26/2010 5:14:07 PM
>>Anonymous at @Gayatri: I'm not talking about Spanish conquistadors. I'm talking pre-Columbus events. <<
Any claims of pre-Columbus trans-ocean contact beyond the Norse and possibly Polynesian should be viewed with deep suspicion, due to a lack of evidence. Do not make Anonymous look bad.
However, since Anthony Janszoon van Salee was a Muslim and one of the major landholders and merchants in New Amsterdam, Obama's statement that Islam has always been a part of America is right.
And given the importance of African-American Muslims during the Civil Rights movement, the statement that "American Muslims have made extraordinary contributions to our country" is also supported. Two more examples of notable Muslim Americans:
*Fazlur Khan, designer of the Sears Tower and innovator of many standard construction elements for skyscrapers. Spencer could very well work in a building based on Khan's designs.
*Muhammad Ali. As every boxing fan knows, he was The Greatest.
So Obama is quite correct, and Spencer is the one who is bullshitting here.
9/26/2010 5:38:43 PM
Estevanico was the first Muslim on the Americas as far as I know, and he dates back to the 16th century.
9/26/2010 5:43:48 PM
@Anonymous: You're talking crap. Evidence for precolumbian Muslim/Native American contact? You have none.
Fortunately, your belief in "firsties" fairy tales does not discount from the very real contributions Muslims have made to America from colonial times on. While always a tiny fraction of the U.S. population, Muslims have been loyal and hardworking Americans for centuries. You don't have to assert primacy to be an important and integral part of American life.
9/26/2010 5:46:20 PM
What mosque at Ground Zero? I keep hearing about it, but I've never been told where or what it looks like.
9/26/2010 6:04:59 PM
There are Arab sources and quite frankly: who would you ex[ect to have the sources on those encounters? The Arabs and the Native Americans, or post-Columbus historians?
My posts have nothing to do with a "firsties fairy tale" as you said. I couldnt care less who was where first. What I am saying is that people who say that Muslims and or Arabs have never been a part of American history and have never contributed anything are wrong.
There are Arab records of journeys by Muslims to the West before Columbus. Captains of the ships on Columbus' journey were Muslims from Spain. And afterwards slaves were brought to the Americas from Africa and that also brought a number of Muslims over. Am I sayin that because of that Arabs and or Muslims are superior or have some sort of claim on American history? No.
I have never understood the thinking of people who always have to resort to some sort of "firsties fairy tale" and then ascribe some sort of superiority. So you can take that comment and shove it.
For anyone interested:
And so there are more sources.
9/26/2010 6:17:45 PM
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