Quote# 76240

The second chapter of the Gospel of John describes the conversion of water into wine by Jesus at a wedding reception. Intuitively one would expect the conversion to occur before anyone tasted the drink. But under quantum mechanics, it is not until observation that matter acquires a definite state. John 2:9 describes this precisely as required by quantum mechanics, and the KJV misses this subtle issue of timing in the conversion.

Andy Schlafly, Conservapedia, Biblical scientific foreknowledge 85 Comments [9/22/2010 3:43:34 AM]
Fundie Index: 115
Submitted By: Night Jaguar

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Quantum Mechanic

Andy, you don't know jack shit about quantum mechanics.

9/22/2010 12:49:51 PM


Bible: The Star Trek Voyager Edition.

9/22/2010 1:07:10 PM

Old Viking


9/22/2010 1:08:14 PM


@ nutbunny

@ breakerslion:

He is Jesus.
He can do anything.
Chemistry means nothing when God decides to fuck around.

Yes, but starting with that premise opens up a larger can of worms.

1. Is the end product real wine or synthetic pseudowine?

2. If real, where did it come from?

3. If synthetic, why was it necessary to start with water? Where did all the other elements come from (Carbon, Nitrogen, Misc other trace)?

4. If real, why was it necessary to start with water? Was this some kind of "packrat" teleportation, and some poor slob wound up with several wine jars full of water? Stealing is not all that miraculous.

5. Why allow your minions to get close enough to fuck with it? A really impressive miracle would be, "Go pick up that empty wine jar," and hey presto! it's full again!

6. Why are there so many people in the 21st century that are as easily duped as iron-age ignorami?

Inquiring minds want to know!

9/22/2010 1:10:03 PM


Oh dear... i'm.... speechless.

9/22/2010 1:22:30 PM

Brendan Rizzo

Um, the water was observed when the servants were pouring it, and the chances of quantum mechanics doing anything on a macroscopic scale are nearly infinitessimal anyway. You misunderstand science again, Mr. Schlafly.

9/22/2010 3:16:00 PM


Andy Schlafly is an example of Quantum Moronics.

9/22/2010 3:32:20 PM


The Bible says "your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him." So why (if the Father and the Son are one) was it necessary for Mary to ask Jesus to turn water into wine?

9/22/2010 4:33:42 PM


Except that observation has little-to-no measurable effect on matter on macroscopic, human-perceivable scales, and really only becomes important to particles that are much, much smaller than single molecules. And invoking quantum mechanics to atempt to explain an event which is, by definition, a miracle is an extreme stretch anyway.

So, Andy--this isn't even wrong.

9/22/2010 5:43:10 PM

Reverend Jeremiah

Andy Schlafly..proving the bible is errant and fallable one verse at a time.

9/22/2010 5:56:59 PM


Of course, most sane people simply acknowledge that it never happened. Most probably there never was a single person known as Jesus. He is simply a collection of earlier myths.

9/22/2010 9:32:25 PM


Yes! That string of words I just said makes perfect sense!

9/22/2010 11:08:23 PM

Rapax Pringer

Oh yeah, quantum mechanics had everything to do with Jesus turning water into wine. Assfly, stop using terms you know absolutely nothing about.

9/23/2010 1:50:34 AM


I used to think andy was a blithering idiot fundie. Now, I realize he is insanity walking. He isn't somebody that is religious to the point of appearing insane, he is insane and one of the manifestations of his insanity is a promotion of a fantasy religion.

9/23/2010 8:05:31 AM

Allegory for Jesus

moose: "he is insane and one of the manifestations of his insanity is a promotion of a fantasy religion."

Also: promotion of mega-far-right political ideologies to go along with said fantasy religion. Only in America could a man get actual people to support him in making the religious/political equivalent of Time Cube.

9/23/2010 8:53:58 AM


Shrodinger's Cat just facepalmed.

9/23/2010 8:57:38 AM


Wow. I don't understand quantum mechanics at all and even I know that this is so absolutely, completely, and utterly wrong that it's practically approaching right from the other side,

I don't think that conscious observers actually causing the wave function to collapse is part of the standard interpretation of quantum mechanics for a start.

And, these events would occur on a quantum level wouldn't they? Schrodinger's Cat is a thought experiment. Things don't actually work like that on a macroscopic level because so many particles are involved and quantum mechanics deals with probabilities. The idea that so many molecules of water would spontaneously change into the ingredients for wine in the exact proportion necessary all at one time . . . I think that's rather improbable. I'd wager a guess that you'd have to wait longer than the universe has been in existence at least for something like that to become probable.

(At least, this is how I understand it . . . but I know that I'm not a physicist and I know that I don't understand quantum mechanics and therefore am not saying that anyone should take on board what I've written as true. Actually, if I've gotten something wrong, please correct me because I'd really hate to go around with a complete misunderstanding of the most basic ideas in quantum mechanics. I suppose that's the real difference between Andy and me (and most of the people here, probably) . . . I want to know when I'm wrong. I want to have the most accurate understanding of the world that I can. And I especially don not want to contribute to anyone else having a less accurate understanding of reality. )

9/23/2010 12:18:37 PM


Oh, Schnapps! Fundie fight!

@Nowonmai-- No, because Andy is endlessly looking inward.

9/23/2010 12:44:30 PM


Wow.... seriously?.... wow

9/23/2010 3:36:11 PM


...I don't think Schrodinger's Cat drinks wine...

9/23/2010 7:14:22 PM

pretty puppy


9/23/2010 7:25:19 PM

People, people, calm down.
Schafley is just the greatest troll of all time.

There is no other explanation.

Please god, make him be a troll. I just wouldn't be able stand the idea that this man is for real.

9/24/2010 4:03:31 AM



> I don't think that conscious observers actually causing the wave function to collapse is part of the standard interpretation of quantum mechanics for a start.

You're right there. I'd suggest that you read up on decoherence, if you're interested.

Any non-supernatural explanation of water turning into wine would have to be dealt with entirely at the chemical level, not the subatomic. Oxygen atoms shedding protons and neutrons or hydrogen fusing to form carbon, nitrogen, etc... well, I don't think any of the wedding party (or much of the surrounding countryside) would survive that particular event.

9/24/2010 10:46:05 AM


Allow me to explain what I think happened in Andy's Mind when he typed that:

"Oh, hey! Jesus's Miracles! Everyone know about the water into wine! But how do I make those evil baby-eating atheists think that it's real? Hmm. Oh! How about some fancy thing I've heard about! Now, let's think. Let's say that nobody knew it was wine until they tasted it! That's uh, think, uh, big words, scientific, hmm…oh! Quantum mechanics! Yes! I've got it! Now let's throw in some big word there so people will think I'm smart! let's see. "Observation" is scientific. So is "definite state". "Acquires" is a good verb! But how does that apply? Well, let's just throw out a bunch of big words! "Subtle, precisely, required, conversion!" Those work! None of my followers are gonna know the meanings of those words, and it'll make me look smart to those demonic atheists! I can't fail!"

9/24/2010 10:45:22 PM



9/25/2010 12:23:32 AM

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