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#1161428
GigaGuess
Part 1
I'm absolutely floored over the way our society has not only accepted all manner of sin, but has actually embraced it.
Yeah? Well there was a time when women going out without a bonnet or some such a thing was positively scandalous. Something tells me you don't have a bonnet. The times, they change, hon. Deal, or GTFO.
There was a time when decent girls didn't move in and set up housekeeping with their boyfriends. If they were engaged, they still knew that shacking up together was unacceptable.
And you have people unaccustomed to living with one another suddenly moving in after marriage, and realizing that they are incompatible. There's a difference between seeing your sweetheart a few times a week, and living with him, and seeing him for who he truly is, in his home life, warts and all.
Now, it seems that every couple moves in together and may have several children, whether they ever get married or not.
As opposed to when Suzie would go live with her aunt for a while, and then came back to find she had a new little brother or sister...yeah, children out of wedlock is a totally new thing...
5/26/2010 9:27:01 AM
#1161429
GigaGuess
Part 2
There was also a time when the conventional mores required that a girl's virginity wa to be valliantly protected until her wedding night. It was a serious matter for a woman to be a virgin until that night.
And now we realize that putting such stock into such a trivial thing is just ludicrous. Not to mention, it's only a woman's virginity that requires proof. Who cares if a man fucked every woman on the block, if a woman has slept with one man (consensual or not,) she's damaged goods, and is worthless.
I remember when my 2 oldest children were still home and I noticed that, more and more, TV shows and movies began equating dating with having sex.
Again, I'd rather find out that my partner and I are sexually incompatible BEFORE we commit to each other fully, rather than find out after the fact. Sex may not be the only thing a relationship is founded on, but it's pretty major.
The characters might have just met in a bar and decide to go elsewhere together and, before they said goodbye, they fell into bed together.
You know, most shows I watch generally portray it in a somewhat negative light still...just because you don't have the couple suddenly get killed by coitus like in the horror movies of old does not mean that it's shown with gleeful abandon. Sex is less taboo than it has been, but a bed-hopping whore is still shown as a bed-hopping whore.
Now, what you hear on TV shows and movies is that a girl should hang on to her virginity until she's ready to give it up and she'll instinctively know when that time comes.
Is this not kinda the basis of "save it for marriage?" I mean the only difference is you're not getting hitched with the first person you get the hots for.
5/26/2010 9:27:39 AM
#1161430
GigaGuess
Part 3
Seriously? So, now we have 14 year olds routinely deciding that they're ready.
As opposed to a slew of young adults getting hitched, then realizing they did it for all the wrong reasons?
The moral decay that I have seen take place in this country sickens me. How are our children supposed to know where the boundary lines for their behavior are?
Well setting them over something as prudish as sex is rather foolish. First, you taboo it, and they will do it. Period. Fastest way to get a teen to do something is to forbid it. Second, it is not intrinsically evil, contrary to your opinion. Do it right, and with mutual respect, and it can be a wonderful experience. To say that it requires marriage to be special or worth something is just naive.
It's as if we're teaching children that they have a right and a responsibility to be their own gods, doing what's right in their own eyes.
And to those around them, yes.
Yeah, that didn't work out so well for Israel.
Heh? You wanna see where your prudish ideals lead? Look to Iran. Where women are stoned if their husbands discover they are not a virgin when they're married.
5/26/2010 9:28:14 AM
#1161444
Cid Highwind
Well, it absolutely floors *me* how much concern you show for the lives of other people, which are none of your business. At all.
5/26/2010 9:52:10 AM
#1161448
JohnTheAtheist
In your own twisted way of thinking you don't really care how old a girl when she loses her virginity, you only care whether or not she is married.
The fact of the matter is that waiting until marriage for sex used to be a fine way to do things. Of course people got married when they were 15 and started pumping out kids immediately so that they had hands to work the farm. That economic model has changed. In order to be competitive the modern marketplace kids must be educated until the age of 22, maybe 25-26. They are therefore unable to support offspring until later in life. If you truly think it is sound policy to expect that human beings will be sexually mature for 10+ years and not have intercourse you are just fucking stupid.
This is not a conspiracy of the liberals or the media. This is unstoppable social forces at work, and your side loses in the long run.
5/26/2010 9:59:38 AM
#1161449
BobsOldSocks
Just move to Waziristan or Afghanistan. There they stone girls to death on suspicion of unchaperoned contact with a male non-relative. They also throw acid in the faces of school girls for daring to go to school. You'd love it.
5/26/2010 10:00:19 AM
#1161463
DinosaurRidinJeebus
Getting married without having sex...like buying a car without test driving it only it fucks your life up alot more.
But seriously. Sex has nothing to do with morality. So why don't you fuck off and go live in the middle east.
5/26/2010 10:25:46 AM
#1161473
allkindsof
The comedy of all this? Several recent studies show those couples who live together and have sex prior to marriage are far less likely to divorce than those couples where traditional values of chastity were practiced leading into wedlock. We keep hearing the Bible thumpers say things like, "It's time to bring back decency to the country and restore conservative family values in our lives." Don't you fucking dare! Conservative family values are a demonstrable, quantifiable failure! Where are most people filing for divorce? Where are most of the abortions occurring? Where are children being born out of wedlock more often? By all relevant indicators, a non-religious couple in New York is exceedingly more likely to remain together and committed than a highly religious couple in Louisiana. Let your ignorant, poorly considered mores be your own, but keep them the hell out of my house.
5/26/2010 10:50:03 AM
#1161483
SleepNeed
Seriously, this sound like my grandmother.
People have been complaining about the "downfall of humanity" since the beginning of humanity. My older sister got married younger (she was 19) than I am, she dated a guy for 3 months and nobody in the family meet the guy till after 6 months when they had a kid suddenly appear in the picture out of the blue.
When we where still dating, the now fiancee found out her and I we're sexually compatible. Marriage really now is just an idea, whereas in the past it was a business transaction, a "you give me your daughter and I give you 100 acres of my land" or "give me your daughter, we forge an alliance to make our kingdoms stronger" to ensure that the offspring are yours.
5/26/2010 11:35:35 AM
#1161485
tracer
GigaGuess wrote:
"Not to mention, it's only a woman's virginity that requires proof. Who cares if a man fucked every woman on the block, if a woman has slept with one man (consensual or not,) she's damaged goods, and is worthless."
Well, of course! If she's not a virgin when you buy/marry her, she might be pregnant from some other guy's sperm. Then you'd be a cuckold!
5/26/2010 11:36:13 AM
#1161486
Reckoner
Put burkas on all the women. It would solve all of those problems.
5/26/2010 11:39:28 AM
#1161497
Old Viking
There was a time when you cured a wart by rubbing it with a toad. Or did you cure a toad by rubbing it with a wart? Something.
5/26/2010 12:00:38 PM
#1161503
Swede
I'm confused. One fundie says it's perfectly okay for 12 year old girls to marry old men and have kids right away.
Another fundie says it's very wrong for a 14 year old to think she's ready to have sex.
What about the boys, what about their virginity? After all, virginity is just not having had sex before. That stupid little skin-fold a few centimeters up in the vagina says nothing about anything. Some girls are born without the fold, some lose it during sport and some need it surgically removed to be able to have sex at all.
"Our children" should learn all the consequences of having sex, before they hit puberty, and how to protect themselves from STDs and unwanted pregnancies.
After that, the only boundary lines are:
Do not sleep with someone you don't want to sleep with.
Only have sex if it feels right.
Never let anyone talk you into anything you don't feel comfortable with.
If you don't want kids now; PROTECT YOURSELF.
That "time" you speak of, it certainly wasn't during the 20th century...
5/26/2010 12:15:00 PM
#1161504
GodotIsWaiting4U
Actually, while it is true that cohabitation before marriage has become far more commonplace, it's NOT true that virginity was invariably protected until the wedding night. What WAS protected until the wedding night? The secret that the dear lady had already lost her virginity. And in some cases, it wasn't that well-kept. The only difference between then and now is that we're being far more honest about it now, while we used to just cover it all up.
5/26/2010 12:17:38 PM
#1161506
Liberty Libertine
"Yeah, that didn't work out so well for Israel."
WTF does Isreal have to do with a girl's decision to go "all the way" or a couple co-habituating?
5/26/2010 12:21:06 PM
#1161515
freako104
They'll know if taught well. I know unmarried couples who live together and they seem to handle things better than you. I see nothing wrong with it. Screeching about things that don't affect you on the other hand...
5/26/2010 12:31:34 PM
#1161518
Welcome to the year 2010. 1950 is back that way.
5/26/2010 12:34:36 PM
#1161542
Saladin
You're just upset because you can't get any.
5/26/2010 1:05:05 PM
#1161557
GigaGuess
@tracer
Oh, I know, and as we all know, boys will be boys, and girls will be Jezebel Harlots doing all they can to lead good Christian Boys astray.
5/26/2010 1:40:51 PM
#1161564
Saccharissa
Random anecdata:
My mom's first boyfriend told her point blank that he would not consider marrying a woman who was a virgin (He wanted someone with some experience). This was in nineteen FIFTY SIX.
Obviously, the ideal of “woman a virgin on wedding day” was not universal, even in the fifties. She just had fewer options if she found herself pregnant.
I think the “utopia” you describe only ever existed up your own ass, where your head seems to be firmly lodged.
5/26/2010 1:52:16 PM
#1161581
I read about the afterlife
Jadeeyes, you are not relevant to anyone's sex life but your own non-existant one.
5/26/2010 2:22:22 PM
#1161605
Berny
You know those "good old days" you keep on about? They never fucking existed.
5/26/2010 3:48:32 PM
#1161607
Thejebusfire
There was a time when decent girls didn't move in and set up housekeeping with their boyfriends. If they were engaged, they still knew that shacking up together was unacceptable
So what's the difference between an engaged person "shaking up" and two married people living together? Signing a piece of paper doesn't mean you're commited to that person.
There was also a time when the conventional mores required that a girl's virginity wa to be valliantly protected until her wedding night.
Yeah, and in the bible women who weren't were killed. What about widows and rape or molestation victims?
How are our children supposed to know where the boundary lines for their behavior are?
I grew up watching a lot of sexual scenes in movies and TV shows and at 20 years old, I'm still a virgin. That's because as a young girl my parents actualy parented me which is something people today don't have the balls to do.
5/26/2010 3:50:22 PM
#1161629
Pule Thamex
We don't really have sin over here in the UK. We're usually too busy having sex and enjoying ourselves to bother with sin. In any case, we'd rather leave all the sinning to the Catholics and the few fundamental cultists that we do have. Although, of course, they can't compete in the sinning stakes with your fundamental cultists over there. You outnumber them greatly.
5/26/2010 4:23:03 PM
#1161646
dionysus
And there was a time when men had multiple wives and fathers could sell their daughters into slavery. Social mores change to adapt to the current situation.
5/26/2010 4:56:04 PM
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