1 2 3
#1071492
Jack Bauer
What about the Billy Graham crusades?
12/14/2009 1:40:50 AM
#1071494
Tolpuddle Martyr
RHJunior has obviously taken a course at the David Irving school of historical spin.
12/14/2009 1:43:51 AM
#1071525
Nathan the Wise
Whatever the motivations or achievements of the crusaders, it still beats me why a movement to reclaim Palestine for Christendom from Islam ended up killing so many Jews. Anybody got an apologetic for that?
12/14/2009 3:48:20 AM
#1071548
Mister Spak
Fundies killing fundies would have been OK, but the fundies typically killed decent people instead.
12/14/2009 6:13:44 AM
#1071559
Xotan
Er no.
Your sequence of events is cockeyed. Go do some reading. Especially about the 4th Crusade. It weakened the Easter Roman Empire to the point where it could never recover, and this was responsible for its ultimate fall to Sultan Mehmet in 1453.
But the crusades were initiated by Pope Urban II a long time before that - half a millenium, in fact.
@ campbunny
What you say is technically correct, but you gloss over many facts that lend significance to the real events and show them in a completely different light to what you imply. Note especially that by the time of the Turkish attack in 1453, the 'Empire' had been reduced to a depopulated city, Constantinople. It didn't have the population to defent itself, and the Turks introduced canon against the 'God-Defended City'. Also the Venetians played and important part in the city's defence. But when Mehmet II got his ships around the harbour chains (by portage), the city's doom was certain. Note also that the fall of the Empire is still a casus belli between the Greeks and Turks. The Greeks were within an ace of retaking the city in the 1920s (I think it was) but the western powers warned them off. But Greek/Turkish relations remain venemous to this day.
12/14/2009 6:32:14 AM
#1071569
apenpaap
So the crusaders plundered and occupied Constantinople in the Fourth Crusade.
12/14/2009 7:02:21 AM
#1071594
Anon-e-moose is superior to God
"The crusades were a military response to a broad-sweeping Muslim invasion of Christendom that had been ongoing for over a century"
Yeah. And the Spanish Inquisition was a P.R. exercise, amirite?
12/14/2009 7:32:51 AM
#1071596
Table Rock
So what about the ones where they attacked Slavs, Mongols, Prussians, Jews, Eastern Orthodox and other Christians? Were they Muslims in disguise?
12/14/2009 7:35:29 AM
#1071606
Jeff
First Crusade launched: 1095
Fall of Constantinople to the Turks: 1453
12/14/2009 7:43:38 AM
#1071624
D Laurier
Rewriting history again?
Crusades begin around 1095 ce
Constantinople becomes target of Turkish revenge around 1450ish
Try again
12/14/2009 7:59:56 AM
#1071626
Doubting Thomas
Because OUR god is better than THEIR god.
And wasn't it Jesus who said that those who live by the sword will sooner die by it? And what about all that "turn the other cheek" talk? He very clearly said to be passive & submissive. So even if your version is historically correct, it goes against what Jesus said to do.
12/14/2009 8:01:15 AM
#1071636
The L
That doesn't change the reports made by Christian soldiers praising God for allowing them to fill the streets of Jerusalem, Constantinople, and Damascus with the blood of non-combatant men, women, and children.
@Pheds and ozznova:
Worse. The quote I've seen describes blood "up to our horses' knees--nay, up to the very bridle." I can certainly see this happening in a walled medieval city with narrow streets and crowded buildings. However, this would require thousands of deaths, a prospect that is nauseatingly cruel.
12/14/2009 8:08:32 AM
#1071639
Shann
Then you are grossly historically ignorant.
Blind, deaf and tragically stupid pot meet blind, deaf and *equally* tragically stupid kettle.
Crack open a history book then get back to me, rube.
And I don't mean the bible, either. Use like, an actual history book filled with events that actually happened.
12/14/2009 8:13:06 AM
#1071646
Lilly
Am I the only one who now hears "Istanbul, not Constantinople" in their heads? *lol*
12/14/2009 8:19:48 AM
#1071660
Garbonzo42
Why do people always use the crusades as the definitive "Ah-but-christians-do-bad-things-too!" example? I always thought that the Thirty Years War was a better example. Christians killing Christians for not being the right kind of Christian.
12/14/2009 8:39:28 AM
#1071678
Shann
@ Lilly:
Oh good - it isn't just me!
12/14/2009 9:10:13 AM
#1071687
Brianisha
what does a christian really know about history? jack squat. Revisionary Lying for Jesus @ Garbanzo i didnt know about that war, but the conflicts in N Ireland sound very similar to that.
12/14/2009 9:18:57 AM
#1071689
Dan Onymous
All the plundered loot and Halliburton contracts must have just been a coincidental bonus then.
12/14/2009 9:19:53 AM
#1071690
Brianisha
what does a christian really know about history? jack squat.
Revisionary Lying for Jesus.
12/14/2009 9:19:56 AM
#1071711
I read about the afterlife
Hi. You might want to pick up a history book the next time you start to spout off nonsense like this.
12/14/2009 9:50:23 AM
#1071787
NO amount of aggression excuses what we in civilized societies call 'war crimes'. There is never, ever a valid excuse to target civilians or to use torture or sexual violence against your enemies. Not under any conditions, ever.
I know, us silly atheists have such strict standards of morality. Its madness.
12/14/2009 11:39:21 AM
#1071830
Old Viking
@dpareja: You are absolutely correct.
12/14/2009 12:58:39 PM
#1071841
Vale Vel Kal
While no crime excuse other crimes, the Fundie is mostly correct. Still a Fundie, but correct.
As for Constantinople, if memory serves, it went from 500 000 inhabitants to 50 000 due to the fourth crusade, but had regained most of its population during the Paleologue era - until early 1400 (first (failed) sieges by the Turks).
12/14/2009 1:18:24 PM
#1071853
Mr. Creazil
As a specialist in the Medieval Middle East, I can only say: Kia Kafkafah. (Go fuck yourself)
12/14/2009 1:49:58 PM
#1071872
John
The crusades were a military response to a broad-sweeping Muslim invasion of Christendom that had been ongoing for over a century.
Google the Albigensian Crusade.
12/14/2009 2:27:00 PM
1 2 3