Caustic Gnostic

Large Hadron Collider is the tool for the creation-of-the-universe experiment.

Russell's Teapot, you poor ignoramus. Precisely as easy to prove as your god.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

12/5/2009 3:54:33 PM

Eden

To add to the things said about burden of proof:

Christian fundamentalists try to influence the american society in a way that afects both, christians as well as atheists or believers in other faiths, and often the attempts of christian fundamentalism at influencing society are connected to decreasing thequality of lieof certain parts of the population (or at least at preventing parts of the population from improving their quality of life).

Examples would be:
Trying to keep the theory of evolution out of science classes (or forcing creationism/ID into it) which makes education for children, affected in such a way, suffer.

Preventing children from learning about methods of contraception, instead trying to force upon them sex after marriage education (which leads to an increase of tenage pregnancies, as some kids just don´t want to wait, but because of lack of educationin this matter were ill informed about methods of contraception).

Preventing pregnant women from getting an abortion, even if the abortion is medically (or psychologically) sound(in some cases endangering the life of the pregnant woman)

Keeping people from marrying the person they love (and to which they are sexually attracted to) if said person has the same gender.


In all these cases christian fundamentalist use their faith as justification for their attempts to (often in a negative way) influence the lifes of christian and nonchristian americans, thereby, in a way, forcing their own faith upon others.
It should be clear, that this is something which should definitely require a proof of the truth of said faith.

12/5/2009 4:54:36 PM

Nowonmai

Because the bible, which is only 'proof' to those who believe it's 'evidence' doesn't make the grade.

12/5/2009 6:39:18 PM

Caustic Gnostic

If the settlers and pioneers of the old Westward Expansion had brought along their copies of "Common Sense" instead of that KJV travesty, we wouldn't have a fraction of the bible queers that we have these days.

12/5/2009 7:05:12 PM

Deftera

Gee, I don't know, maybe it's because the wholly babble ISN'T evidence?

12/5/2009 7:36:17 PM

Darwin's Lil' Girl

Because the Bible is only evidence of Bronze age goathearders not having the wherewithal to talk to each other about the holy book they were going to write.

Papabear and Old Viking: In Celsius (which I'm used to), room temperature is 20 degrees - making the description all the more apt.

12/5/2009 8:42:29 PM

the bible is not proof of anything idiot..

12/6/2009 6:48:39 AM

Vorlon

Is the Troybot doing all that spamming manually, and actually deliberately choosing incongruous people to impersonate, or is it just luck?

Also,
a. Burden Of Proof is a basic fundemental precept behind virtually all of modern society, from law, to government, to things like getting bank accounts and insurance.

b. I seem to recall, using the mathematical definition of the term, they *have* proved the mechanism by which the universe came to be, according to the information available. That's how they predicted the existance of the Higgs Boson, which they're now performing experiments to find and demonstrate. (can someone confirm/correct this statement please?)

12/6/2009 9:27:55 AM

His4Life

WTF does Higgs Bosom prove? I looked it up and it's a particle. That's it. It doesn't prove or disprove ANYTHING about God or the Bible.

12/6/2009 5:12:45 PM

Caustic Gnostic

Higgs Bosom?

LOL...no, boson. Otherwise known as the "God" particle. It has been predicted in quantum physics to be very pivotal in terms of how and why matter works.

12/6/2009 6:29:01 PM

His4Life

What is it supposed to prove exactly? If God exists?

12/6/2009 7:00:03 PM

Caustic Gnostic

No, it proves that god is a subnuclear particle.

12/6/2009 7:01:56 PM

John_in_Oz

For those interested in memtic evolution, an interesting study would be the morphing of the meme "'Poe' = 'An instance of (Nathan) Poe's law, that in the absence of a smiley-face or similar, it's impossible to tell if someone is mocking Fundies or a genuine Fundie'" (I paraphrase) into "'Poe' = 'troll'".

12/6/2009 7:16:19 PM

Vorlon

the existence of the Higgs Boson, simply put, proves that the mathematical projections of the state of the universe just after it started are viable. The models require it to exist, ergo showing that it does demonstrates the validity of those same models.

Also, IIRC it's called the 'god particle' because it's estimated to be fundamental to subatomic operations, nothing to do with deities. 'Very f*cking important particle' just didn't slip off the tongue so well.

12/7/2009 2:39:34 AM

His4Life

Ok, so the Higgs Boson particle doesn't prove anything about whether God exists or not. What's the point?

12/7/2009 7:46:21 AM

Anon-e-moose

@His4Life

"Higgs Bosom"

Freudian slip, much?

"Ok, so the Higgs Boson particle doesn't prove anything about whether God exists or not"

And fundies spewing spiritual & metaphorical crap about a so-called 'God' from at best third-hand testimonies in a compilation written by Bronze Age goatfuckers with ideas above their stations, doesn't prove that a so-called 'God' exists. Not until said fundies can produce him in physical form. Therefore...:

"What's the point?"

Of fundamentalist Christianity? None whatsoever, as far as I can tell. No proof, no acknowledgement of a 'God's existence. Certainly from we Atheists.

"Can you 'prove' your 'burden of proof' deal using physical evidence?"

We Atheists aren't the ones making the claim that a 'God' exists. It's you fundies who do. Thus the onus, and therefore the burden of proof, is on you to prove that he does. That's how the argument works, y'see. We Atheists don't have to lift a finger.

...but then, if your so-called 'God' was everything he claimed to be (i.e. 'omnipotent'), he wouldn't need the likes of you to 'spread the word'. He'd be more than capable of doing the job himself. Frankly, you fundies have no part in it. You're a 'fifth wheel', surplus to requirements, irrelevant. After all, as a comedian once said, "If God is the most powerful being in the universe, why does he have a bunch of bozos to do his P.R.?"

Now ask yourself why he can't announce himself to the entire world, to everyone at the same time? If he can do something as hyper-complex as magic an entire universe, world & all the life on it, then frankly merely showing himself would be a piece of piss, wouldn't you say? So why can't he?

If you posses a shred of logic and reason, and asked yourself that simple question - why he can't show himself - you'd come up with one of these answers (check one):

[ ] If 'God' actually showed himself in physical form, it would spell the end for you & your ilk. After all, proof denies faith, and without faith, there can be no 'spiritual' belief. And religion relies on the 'belief' of it's adherents. Therefore Christianity would be destroyed. No religion = No God.

[ ] He can't show himself, because a 'God' doesn't exist.

Choose wisely.

12/7/2009 8:11:55 AM

His4Life

Um, dude, thatt's precisely it. God doesn't need us. He already revealed himself in Jesus and in teh Bible. God has done exactly what you're asking for - revealed himself in a physical form for all to see and know. Now the onus is on YOU to respond to God's revelation or reject it.

[ ] Recognize that Jesus is God in physical form, repent of your sins, be baptized and become a new creature in Christ.

[ ] Continue to reject Christ, go on with your sinful lifestyle until God decides you've had enough time to repent, and then spend eternity begging for mercy from a God you mocked and ridiculed.

Choose wisely.

12/7/2009 5:09:22 PM

louislois

Dumbass fundy.

@His4Life

You shouldn't swear. Your god doesn't like it.

12/7/2009 5:30:15 PM

Moondog

"These are the Things That Creationists Hate"
(Sung to the tune of "My Favorite Things")
Thermodynamics and closing the system,
DNA helix and techs that can twist 'em,
Egyptian history without a flood break,
These are the things that creationists hate.

Wallace and Darwin and Einstein and Hawking
Asimov, Sagan and Shermer - how shocking!
Eldrige and Gould and their colleagues to date :
These are the people creationists hate.

People who know how to work with statistics,
Fossils that flesh out the map of cladistics,
Models that show how the genomes mutate,
These are the things that creationists hate.

When the fundies
Purge the textbooks,
And the schools beset,
I mention the things that creationists hate,
And that gets them all upset!

Hate the scien-
tific method;
Made up their own way :
"You must take as fact the bible
Or at least the parts we say!"

There are more species than one ark could carry,
Lightspeed inside of a vacuum won't vary,
Isotopes melt at a consistent rate,
These are the things that creationists hate.

Transitional fossils that show speciation,
Galapagos finches and random mutation,
Isotopic decay at predictable rates,
These are the things that creationists hate.

The orbit of planets is heliocentric,
Science and reason are now epidemic,
God's love to me seems a bit more like hate,
These are the things that creationists hate.

Pagan witches,
Darwin fishes
Seem to make them mad.
So they just cling to their bibles and shout
"Everything else iiiiiis bad!"

Fossil records,
Plate tectonics,
Make them really blue.
But if they relied on their mythos for food,
They wouldn't know what to do!

Well before Darwin, geologists began
Establishing that the earth's much older than
Jim Usher said, and that science refuses
To yield up the proof of a flood for the pews.

Physics has all those embarrassing laws,
Like rates of decay for the isotopes. Cause
Of the rainbow is really refraction of light,
They twist it to prove the great Book - that ain't right.

Old-Earthers think the Young-Earthers too zealous,
Young-Earthers think the Old-Earthers bad fellas.
Seeking the ark, they make trips down to Turk-
ey, each says the other's obstructing their work.

Noah's shi-ip
Seems to sli-ip
Past discovery.
Dozens say that they've found it,
But yet no recovery!

12/8/2009 7:39:46 AM

His4Life

wow, I think I'vebeen on this board too long. I had a horrifying dream about atheists last night, but I think God gave it to me as a severe warning to pass along to you atheists here. It was about two atheists on judgement day, a man and a woman in their early 30s. They weren't married but had been shacking up and doing drugs and other shit and they were totally confident that there was no God and science would save them.

Anyway remember what I said about hades and hell/the lake of fire being seperate places? This dream kind of relates to that. The two atheists died of a drug overdose and ended up in Hades. They were taken to their prison cells in hades and these huge angels in black were standing guard (angels of judgment they're called). It was funny but sad because the atheists immediately started trying to analyze everything through science, and the angels of judgment started laughing and beat the living tar out of them both with their flaming whips. Then the atheists wanted to know why they were in hades, and the angels said 'because you're sinners and you didn't repent of your sins.' One of the atheists said that they weren't sinners and the angel laughed. It started rattling off a list of sins that both atheists were guilty of that seemed to go on for years, giving them a lash with its whip for each sin it read off. The atheists screeched and clawed their way across the floor trying to get away; it was kind of funny but horribly sad. Finally, the atheists were let out of hades and came before the great white judgment seat of God. They were like 'phew, it's finally over.' And God replied "No, for you eternity is just beginning." Then they were judged by God and thrown into the lake of fire. In my dream, I was brought back to the lake of fire in like a hundred years in the future to see if the atheists were still there. They wre still there burning. it was horrible becuase now i know what the Lord meant when said that in hell both body and soul will be destroyed. It doesn't mean literal destrution; it just means that the personality of the person will be totally destroyed. All the atheists could do was scream for mercy from those watchingon the shore of the lake of the fire; they couldn't even communicate or be human anymore. One of them tried to claw its way out, but the angel gave it a kick in the teeth and sent it flying baeck into the lack fo fire. and then I woke up in a cold sweat.

Hell is real, and God loves you and wants to save you so you don't go throug hthis place! Please repent! I am not tying to be mean and i am sorry if may attitude has turned anyone itnoff, please forgive me but don't continue living in sin Godwants to save you

12/8/2009 7:57:30 AM

Anon-e-moose is superior to God

@His4Life

"Hell is real"

Prove it. Got that "Sliders"-style dimensional portal generating device to hand?

"and God loves you and wants to save you so you don't go throug hthis place!"

If your so-called 'God' loves us, let's see him prove it. Eliminate ALL evil in the world now.

"Please repent!"

If your so-called 'God wants us to 'repent', he can appear to us in person - in physical form - and ask us. Simple, eh?

"I am not tying to be mean"

You were certainly trying beforehand. But that's right-wing fundies for you - they can be very trying.

"and i am sorry if may attitude has turned anyone itnoff"

If only every right-wing fundie had the same attitude, and generally left everyone alone. Then this would be a better world. A fundie-free world. After all:

Matthew 6:6: But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

In other words, keep your religion to yourselves.

"please forgive me"

Okay, I forgive you. 'To err is human, to forgive, divine'. And I am superior to God after all (as in I can do something he can't: exist).

"but don't continue living in sin"

'Sin' is defined in any dictionary as committing crimes against divine law. Or contravening the moral standards of a deity(ies). But since we Atheists don't acknowledge the existence of a 'God', therefore we can't be sinners.

We Atheists certainly have higher moral standards than your 'God'. Just read the Old Testament for proof. Therefore we Atheists are superior to God.

"Godwants to save you"

The heavenly lord and master
Saw man heading for a hellish disaster
Why'd he send his son in
To take away sin
When snapping his fingers'd be faster?

12/8/2009 9:28:07 AM

Quantum Mechanic

"deny it"

Actually we just ignore it.

12/9/2009 1:08:58 PM

Lucifer

@auther of the rant
You don't HAVE evidence in your bible. It's contradictory to what is common observation and knowledge.
@everyone else
Can someone please explain how dreams prove anything?
@Hisforlife
People dream. It's images in your head. I mean I had a dream that the so called devil had love issues before he fell and is now stuck guarding the Garden of Eden. What does that prove. it doesn't prove anything, certainly not the existance of the devil. What about people's dreams about aliens, monsters, psycho lesbian demon containing ninjas, serial killers with killer notebooks, ninjas, ugly snake men, guys in costumes saving the world, digimon, pokemon, bizzaro tech, zombies, and gun slingers. People dream about that stuff doesn't make it real.

12/9/2009 1:30:24 PM

Caustic Gnostic

The issue of god's existence is a null argument. I'm not inclined to work myself up over it. Dream your dreams. You have that freedom. However, it is unfair to subject other people to the foibles of your sleeping imagination.

Hey. Next time you have a death dream, go along with it and see where it takes you.

12/9/2009 1:38:56 PM

His4Life

So what does this higgs boson particle prove in relation to God, anway? I don't see how it's relevant to our conversation here. Unless you seriously think a microscopic particle is God, in which case I don't know what ot say.

12/9/2009 4:53:49 PM