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Quote# 67897

[Comment in response to a poll question: "Do you believe in evolution?"]


Hmm, we should define the meaning of evolution here:
a.) Change from bacteria to bacteria or virus to virus
b.) Change from bacteria to bacteriologist or virus to virologist

I am not against the first definition. However, I am against the second definition.

The first definition is usually called mutation. It is scientific and observable.
The second definition is non-observable and non-scientific as there is no evidence to it.

The key differences:

a.) The first definition: there is no additional information in the genome (in fact, most of the time, it is loss of information in the genome)
b.) The second definition: there is additional information in the genome.

a.) The first definition does not violate second law of thermodynamics.
b.) The second definition violates second law of thermodynamics (how can ordered structure-especially in terms of stereochemistry-such as DNA and enzyme arise from a pool of blind chemicals?)

Jefri Sanusi Teguh ???, Facebook 57 Comments [12/2/2009 4:42:26 AM]
Fundie Index: 43
Submitted By: David D.G.
WTF?! || meh
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#1065782
EllwyenDarwin

So much fail.

12/2/2009 1:41:38 PM

#1065805
Dr. Novakaine

So, Jefri doesn't understand genetics or physics. Good to know.

12/2/2009 1:59:11 PM

#1065878
Ambrielle

Just enough knowledge to be dangerous. And stupid.

12/2/2009 4:34:04 PM

#1065885
louislois

Did it hurt when you pulled all this fail out of your ass?

12/2/2009 5:01:18 PM

#1065932
Sasha

Blind chemicals? On the contrary, most of them have excellent vision. They can see you're a retard.


12/2/2009 7:57:20 PM

#1065967
gotpwnt


12/2/2009 9:59:39 PM

#1065991
raindrops

And you learn all these from where?

12/2/2009 11:52:19 PM

#1066004
moose

If you spent all your free time studying actual science instead of magic sky ghost gibberish, then you would be quite brilliant.

12/3/2009 1:11:52 AM

#1066009
Mrs Antichrist

1) Actually, both would be forms of evolution. The latter is merely evolution on a longer timescale. What you refer to as "macroevolution" is the long term accumulation of every tiny changes within group genetics, eventually leading to speciation, and there is NOTHING in place to stop it from happening. To accept "microevolution" (your word, not mine) is to accept the vehicle upon which "macroevolution" rides. You're pissing on your own feet here.

2) Both "definitions" are observable and testable. If we cannot observe something directly, we look for fossil evidence and use the theory to make accurate predictions.

3) First off, there is nothing in place to prevent additional proteins from mutating within our DNA. A duplication of a single protein = more "information" (although "altered chemical reactions" would be a more accurate term). Secondly, human DNA has fewer base pairs than that of many other animals, and all animals have fewer base pairs than many genuses of algae. So, even if your little idea about DNA not being able to become more complex were true, it wouldn't disprove evolution. Humans are not more genetically complex than every other lifeform, nor do we need to be. Evolution plays upon quality, not quantity.

4) You completely fail at three areas of science -- biology, chemistry and physics. A) The laws of thermodynamics don't even apply here. Earth is not a closed system. B) If they did, they would nullify your first definition as well. C) Abiogenesis, while related to evolution, is not the same thing. They're two separate theories. D) DNA, which is made up of a series of proteins, requires only a series of electrochemical reactions. By replicating early Earth conditions, we've already managed to show that these proteins will form. Given that the first life was nothing more than replicating DNA, rather than a fully-formed cell suddenly popping out of no where, abiogenesis is actually quite feasible.

By the way, it's cute how you're throwing these terms around in order to make yourself sound educated and intelligent. Too bad that some of us actually know what they mean, and recognize that you're simply parroting what you've read on the internet.

12/3/2009 1:23:56 AM

#1066018
Jack Bauer

The only thing you seem to be good at is failure.

12/3/2009 1:58:20 AM

#1066049


Ok, let's say that "no valid for me" because you have no clue of what it's about.

12/3/2009 4:58:53 AM

#1066067
Dan onymous

If the 2nd law was actuallly applicable here, life itself would be impossible.

Why do these nutters persist in this stupid fallacy when they clearly don't understand it?

12/3/2009 7:03:12 AM

#1066069
Dr. Gus

Or c., where a fundy such as yourself evolves a brain;
or d., where a fundy like yourself becomes a moron... oh wait a minute, you already ARE an ignorant moron.

EVOLUTION, THERMODYNAMICS AND BIOCHEMISTRY DON'T WORK THAT WAY

12/3/2009 7:07:18 AM

#1066100
Ratio

If you believe that that's how the second law of thermodynamics works, you're an idiot. The world is full of examples of decreased entropy within a small scope - otherwise we would never be able to synthesize larger molecules from smaller compounds using some heat (or to generate electricity by heating up water to turn a steam turbine, for that matter)

12/3/2009 8:18:49 AM

#1066120
breakerslion

"The second definition violates second law of thermodynamics (how can ordered structure-especially in terms of stereochemistry-such as DNA and enzyme arise from a pool of blind chemicals?)"

Oh... I don't know... How can you and some unfortunate female make a human out of a teaspoonfull of spooge and an egg smaller than the average booger?

12/3/2009 9:49:25 AM

#1066124
G. Fieendish

To paraphrase a certain series of British Telecom T.V ads from the late 1980's "You got a Ology...?"

12/3/2009 10:04:39 AM

#1066203
Duraji

Not necessarily fundy, just ignorant. Hopefully that can be fixed before it's too late.

12/3/2009 1:13:57 PM

#1066333
Ijarud

4 Step Perfect Proof for the Flying Spaghetti Monster

The Flying Spaghetti Monster said He proves Himself by observing pasta. Let's see if He is right. 1) Something can't come from that which does not exist, so pasta requires a cause. 2) Pasta can't always have existed because a) heat death would be far greater than it is, and b) mankind would have approximated into that alleged past eternity and not still be perfecting capellini all'amatriciana to the extent it still does along the exponential progression of conscience we are clearly on. What other option is there than the uncaused (uncreated) created?

Choose the one true faith (true reality) that comes out on top from the ones that are accessible: Christianity, Hinduism/Buddhism, Islam, Pastafarianism. Obviously Pastafarianism is the most personal because the Flying Spaghetti Monster reveals Himself in linguine. And only the Flying Spaghetti Monster is proven by the pirate proof and multiple resurrection appearances in various group settings, e.g.,



If you want to be eternally separated from the Flying Spaghetti Monster, it’s your choice to send yourself to be boiled in marinara. Unwittingly, however, you lead many people to the Flying Spaghetti Monster and strengthen the faith of Pastafarians and lead them to the stripper factory and the beer volcano because you are unable to disprove the perfect proof for the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

RAmen.

12/3/2009 9:16:48 PM

#1066364
Antichrist

In 300 years we've produced 19 recognizable subspecies of coyotes, this is not including coydogs.

Give it another 300 years and we'll have different species.

12/3/2009 11:29:51 PM

#1066418
Caf

I would actually give him minor props for style, if he thought up the "bacteria to bacteriologist" "virus to virologist" phrases himself. Doesn't make his science less quacky, but at least he knows to turn a phrase.

Sadly, considering the lack of innovation in the creationist camp, as well as the high degree of plagiarism, I'm not keeping my hopes up.

12/4/2009 5:17:55 AM

#1066419
Dudely

Just keep regurgitating those creationist soundbites you swallow whole. Maybe if you say it enough people will become as ignorant as you!

12/4/2009 6:06:24 AM

#1066710
Alien Acid

@Sasha, #1065932:

But can they see what makes cinnamon toast crunch?

12/5/2009 11:37:48 AM

#1067213
some dude

Yet another poor kid left behind by an education system that fails to teach evolution properly.

12/7/2009 1:06:08 AM

#1067221
Palifox

I'm afraid you'll have to repeat first year biology, physical chemistry and organic chemistry.

12/7/2009 4:06:59 AM

#1067328
Darwin's Lil' Girl

I'm going to go cry now.

12/7/2009 9:51:16 AM
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