Mr. Mannn #fundie

Mr. Mannn #fundie rr-bb.com

I know the atheist communist states all murdered people of faith and continue to persecute them to this day.

Atheist states have committed atrocities against their own people in a far greater proportion than any other state. The Stalin genocide in the Ukraine killed far more than Hitler was able to do.

Calling Christians violent is simply not true. you might point to a few historical instances, but you can't paint the faith as violent overall.

This sounds like atheist propaganda. Are you an atheist? Are you a Christian?
What brought you to this board?

53 comments

old comment by Headache

Stalin was religious communist and not an atheist.

See Dictators and faith:

Stalin received religious education in Gori Churchs School (from 1888-09-?? to 1894-06-??) and Tbilisi Priests Seminary (from 1894-09-01 to 1899-07-29) which he didn’t accomplished because he entered Revolution movement. Likely, those ideas about how to defend poor people and that rich people will go to Hell or at least for them will be hard to go to (communistic) heaven... Stalin collected such ideas from his religious education.

and

B.M.Gunko "Poet Josef Dzhugashvili"
1999-03-09 Newspaper "Duel" N10 (101)

(...) In his burden and song
like the beam of the Sun,
lived great truth
Divine dream.

(...) But people who forgot God,
with darkness in their hearts,
instead of wine served poison
to him in the cup.

And told to him: "Damn you!
Drink this cup to the bottom!...
And your song is alien for us,
and we don’t need your truth!"

and from his daughter, Svetlana Stalin:

In other-bigger Interview to Russian magazine "Version" ("??????") and second Russian TV channel RTR (1998) Svetlana spoke more about her father’s belief in God. She said, that later Stalin told her history of Christ. And she thinks that he was believer. Stalins wife Nadezhda maybe was an atheist, because she denied for nannies to talk about God with kids. But it was not big problem - (maybe, with Gods help :) Nadezhda shoot herself in 1932. It is symbolic, that her name means "Hope" :). Stalin’s daughter said that after mother’s death Stalin lost everything human in him.

old comment by

I know the atheist communist states all murdered people of faith and continue to persecute them to this day.

How are atheist persecuting Christians? You guys are the ones trying to force your creationism down our throats.

Atheist states have committed atrocities against their own people in a far greater proportion than any other state. The Stalin genocide in the Ukraine killed far more than Hitler was able to do.

One step forward by admitting Hitler was a Christian, One step back for Stalin wasn't killing for atheism (unlike the Crusades), he was killing just because he was a sick fucker.

Calling Christians violent is simply not true. you might point to a few historical instances, but you can't paint the faith as violent overall.

And another step back. Your Holy Book is horrible. It's more violent than a Quentin Tarantino movie. Not to mention their are numerous cases of Christians killing other Christians aside from Hitler. Like for example the murder of George Tiller. It was done by a Christian that thought he was killing for the highest ideals.

This sounds like atheist propaganda. Are you an atheist? Are you a Christian?
What brought you to this board?

Your side always tries (and for the most part fails) to insert creationist beliefs into science class. Tries to make Bible Study mandatory in public schools. Preaching on the streets claiming I'll go to hell if I don't save my soul. Claiming that only atheists commit murder. I think there is much more propaganda on your side than ever before.

old comment by Nathan the Wise

Stalin was religious? I've heard it all now. No, he wasn't. Not past his teenage years, anyway. He failed the course at Tiflis Seminary (to be exact, he didn't show up for his final exams) and was frequently in trouble with the authorities for reading banned literature, dissing religion and generally being a disruptive influence. He, like many other students at the Seminary, was never really destined for the priesthood in any case (although I'm sure his mother would have liked it). The Seminary was where poorer Georgians sent their sons to get an education, being unable to afford the University; only a minority of the graduates actually became priests.

In later life he made (unlike Hitler) repeated and explicit statements of atheism, both in public and in private, and his policy toward all religious organisations when in power was unremittingly hostile, except during the opening phases of the Great Patriotic War, when in the face of defeat he sought to rally the nation behind him.

Svetlana Stalin isn't a very reliable witness, I'm afraid; she got religion quite badly at one point (after leaving the USSR), and later got mental illness even worse. Her accounts have been shown to be materially incorrect in many respects, and also self-contradictory, depending on what phase of her life she was in at the time. She came to a very sad end, possibly the last of Stalin's victims.

No, it would be nice for us to be able to disown Uncle Joe, but the guy was definitely an atheist, and that's all there is to it. I don't think Hitler was, but calling him a Christian is a stretch too far, if you ask me.

old comment by Marc

Calling Christians violent is simply not true. you might point to a few historical instances, but you can't paint the faith as violent overall.

You're kidding, right? The last 2000 years is a litany of Christian violence, from murdering "heretics" to killing non-believers, to slaughtering innocents, to forced conversions, to murdering gays and abortion doctors today! Not too mention the wars fought between the Catholics and Protestants that are still going on in the world.

Couple that with the fact that you are joyously anticipating an event that will cause the eternal torture of billions of non-Christians in a lake of fire.

Tell me again about your Prince of Peace?

old comment by Lucilius

You're quite right, Nathan though Stalin undoubtedly profited greatly from the rudimentary logical training he received at the Tiflis seminary, I don't think there's any doubt he was an atheist. As has been said so often, there's nothing like a repressive religious education for driving people away from church.

It is interesting, though, that Stalin and other Old Bolsheviks never forgot their roots. According to Simon Sebag Montefiore's biography of Stalin, the family of Andrei Zhdanov still has an amazing recording: Stalin, Zhdanov and Marshal Klim Voroshilov and one other I can't recall singing hymns. They were all former seminary students, and in the late 1940s would occasionally sing the old chapel standards after too much Georgian wine. Stalin supposedly had quite a good singing voice. I'd love to hear it.

old comment by Nathan the Wise

@ Headache:

That was a terrible site you linked to. It appears to be the somewhat obsessive work of a fundie atheist, who seems to be as outraged that Bad Men can be atheists as Mr. Mannnnn is at the thought that Bad Men might be Christians. The site is just one great big quote-mine. It includes irrelevancies such as JVS uttering oaths with 'God' in them ... I said 'Jesus Fucking Christ' when I trod in something horrible the other day, and I'm an atheist Jew. I really don't think such trivia weighs very heavily against Stalin's consistent atheistic and anti-religious stance, as expressed in his reported speech and in his own writings over fifty years. I could look up some quotes for you, if you like, from my collection of books about Stalin and the history of the USSR. I have been studying the life and career of JVS for nearly 30 years now, so I think I do know something about it, yes. (I have a personal interest; my late grandfather left Odessa in 1932, one step ahead of the NKVD).

old comment by Orion

"I know the atheist communist states all murdered people of faith and continue to persecute them to this day."

Which is why we always hear about the Communist Cuba massacres. Oh wait.

Which is why we always hear that China murdered all the Christians. Oh wait. Yeah they do persecute you, but that's because you keep claiming the state is evil and trying to undermine the state, which they obviously resent.

"Atheist states have committed atrocities against their own people in a far greater proportion than any other state."

Sigh, so? One country did it. One massacre from one atheist is not a trend. And as other posters pointed out the Christian states and Muslim states and whatever other religion states have all been involved in massacres at one point or another. I'd say the trend shows that religiosity doesn't impact on peoples tendency to kill each other for being different.

"The Stalin genocide in the Ukraine killed far more than Hitler was able to do."

There's good reason for that:
1. Lot more people in the Ukraine and the USSR in general than there are Jews in France, Italy, Poland, Germany and the other small countries they conquered.
2. The Russians kind of put a stop to Hitler before he could finish killing all the Jews (among others). Yeah those dirty atheists were the ones coming to the rescue while good Christian America sat on its hands.
3. Honestly Hitler lacked the resources or a handy famine to do that with.

old comment by John_in_Oz

Onward, Christian soldiers! Duty's way is plain;
Slay your Christian neighbors, or by them be slain,
Pulpiteers are spouting effervescent swill,
God above is calling you to rob and rape and kill,
All your acts are sanctified by the Lamb on high;
If you love the Holy Ghost, go murder, pray and die.

Onward, Christian soldiers! Rip and tear and smite!
Let the gentle Jesus bless your dynamite.
Splinter skulls with shrapnel, fertilize the sod;
Folks who do not speak your tongue deserve the curse of God.
Smash the doors of every home, pretty maidens seize;
Use your might and sacred right to treat them as you please.

Onward, Christian soldiers! Eat and drink your fill;
Rob with bloody fingers, Christ okays the bill,
Steal the farmers' savings, take their grain and meat;
Even though the children starve, the Saviour's bums must eat,
Burn the peasants' cottages, orphans leave bereft;
In Jehovah's holy name, wreak ruin right and left.

Onward, Christian soldiers! Drench the land with gore;
Mercy is a weakness all the gods abhor.
Bayonet the babies, jab the mothers, too;
Hoist the cross of Calvary to hallow all you do.
File your bullets' noses flat, poison every well;
God decrees your enemies must all go plumb to hell.

Onward, Christian soldiers! Blight all that you meet;
Trample human freedom under pious feet.
Praise the Lord whose dollar sign dupes his favored race!
Make the foreign trash respect your bullion brand of grace.
Trust in mock salvation, serve as tyrant's tools;
History will say of you: "That pack of G.. D.. fools"

RG
Thanks to Mudcat for the Digital Tradition!

Christians at War
(John F, Kendrick)
(IWW Songs, 9th. Edition, 1916)
http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiCHRSTWAR;ttONCHRST.html

Mr. Mannn #fundie rr-bb.com

53 comments

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