I think you misunderstand the position of saints in the Catholic branch of Christianity. Or what indeed defines a Christian.
2/15/2009 7:55:00 AM
Because they respect the woman who gave birth to your savior that makes them evil?
2/15/2009 8:15:54 AM
#955038: Mary didn't give birth to Paul!
2/15/2009 8:19:31 AM
Mary is God's babymama. Seems like a good person to talk to if you need a favor from the Big Guy. Kind of like shooting Michelle Obama an email if you need a bit of extra help, you know?
2/15/2009 8:25:51 AM
Ewww, the Scientologist over there thinks whether what Xenu did was wrong or not. What a fag.
2/15/2009 9:16:38 AM
Speaking as somebody who was raised a Catholic I can safely tell you that they do NOT elevate Mary to the level of God. Nor are they a Satanic Cult. And yes, they are Christians.
I'm sure you're relieved to have that sorted out.
There are, however, plenty of accurate issues you could have with the RCC. Be my guest.
2/15/2009 9:25:32 AM
Funny how Protestant fundies vilify Catholics for not being as fundie as them, when they use the Bible - product of several ceturies of Catholic "creative editing" and they spout exactly the same crap in regards to abortion and contraception.
2/15/2009 9:58:51 AM
Gee, I must be going to the wrong Catholic services.
2/15/2009 10:03:04 AM
All those years I was Catholic, I'd been worshipping Mary? That's news to me.
2/15/2009 10:26:51 AM
Pot, meet kettle.
2/15/2009 10:32:30 AM
It has been said so many times that one can only conclude that fundamentalist malice is the only reason this particular slander is perpetuated.
Catholics worship the Christian God. They say the Nicene Creed and the Apostles Creed, neither of which have a word of Mary-worship in them.
What Catholics do is to turn to Mary, and to others (saints) they believe are with God in heaven, and they ask them, as friends of God, to intercede with the Deity on their behalf. It's something along the lines of having a friend in a royal court who can obtain favours from the king.
What Catholics do not do is to worship these saints - not even Mary. They venerate them, and they venerate Mary in a particular way because of what the Bible says about her and her unique relationship with God. It could be argued that the Orthodox have much the same, if not even more intense veneration of Mary.
Now JP, you have a lot of learning and reading to do. You should attend a Catholic Mass and see if there is a word of worship of Mary or the saints. All you will hear is that respect is shown to her and her intercession with God is invoked.
Your Protestant malice is very much on view here. And as with most malice it is founded on untruth and lies. So much for your Christianity.
BTW, I am agnostic, but I reverence the truth above lies. Satan is the Father of Lies, and you are very close to him, by all appearances. Take care for your soul, if you have one!
2/15/2009 10:52:23 AM
Blaidd Drwg (Bad Wolf)
Here's a point I don't think he's thought of:
Since he claims that Catholics are NOT Christian, and Catholics make up about 40% of the US, with 15-20% identifying as something other than Protestant that means that the US is definitely NOT a nation in which Christians are in the majority...
Ergo, if "Majority Rules" then "Christians" (i.e., WASP) should just sit down, shut up, and get used to being in the minority.
2/15/2009 11:01:34 AM
Look, true Scotsmen!
2/15/2009 11:25:59 AM
You are a brainless tit.
2/15/2009 11:38:46 AM
But protestants eat pork, so that proves Islam is the real religion.
2/15/2009 12:25:30 PM
CATHOLICISM DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!
2/15/2009 12:51:30 PM
Protestantism came from Catholocism.
2/15/2009 2:07:47 PM
You worship the same invisible man. Deal.
2/15/2009 2:14:07 PM
When Catholics say "holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners ...", who do they imagine Mary will pray to? Herself?
All Christians believe that someone else can pray for you, and most believe that saints in heaven can pray for you, too. It's called "intercession". Catholics go a step further and believe that not only can saints pray for you, but that you may ask them to, as well. It's called "invocation". Scripture is unclear as to whether saints in heaven can hear people on earth. Catholics point to several passages that suggest they can. Protestants are unconvinced, but don't really show any scriptural support for denying it.
There's no question that in the Middle Ages, Catholics took obsequious groveling before Mary to new heights, and Luther opposed this, but he doesn't appear to have denied invocation entirely.
2/15/2009 3:03:46 PM
Catholics are Christians just like you are. Give it up.
2/15/2009 3:06:31 PM
Someone's been reading too many Chick tracts...
2/15/2009 3:11:36 PM
a mind far far away
You're wrong on two levels. First, Catholics don't worship Mary. They give her reverence, but reserve the highest worship for god alone. Second, high church Lutherans, Anglicans, and some Methodists do the same.
2/15/2009 3:31:25 PM
JPII is guilty of having raised Mary to the status of "co-redemptrix", therefore fanning the fires of those who believe Catholics worship Mary. Also, there are clubby little groups within the Catholic Church which do take devotions to Mary to a Mary-worshipping level.
There are enough real crimes perpetrated by the Catholic Church, however, to condemn them as a very dangerous and perhaps evil organization without having to resort to conflicting interpretatons of doctrine.
2/15/2009 3:38:50 PM
Of all the things you could take issue with the catholic chruch, like moving boy-raping priests from one parish to another in an attempt to cover-up their crimes, you focus on this?
2/15/2009 3:44:20 PM
For a second there I thought this was RR, they have a whole section of their website devoted to how Mary worship is the root of all evil and Catholicism is a death cult. (The irony, I know.)
I was raised Catholic and have no problem seeing it as a "family tradition" - but it helps that Born Agains make Catholics look a tad less batshit crazy.
2/15/2009 4:05:01 PM