Quote# 43229

Why do atheist complain so much about Christians' influence on government and education when?
it is our own tax dollars with which we are forced to:

fund abortions which we are adamantly opposed to
fund art that directly blasphemes are God
fund the promotion of promiscuity in the school system with birthcontrol and condoms passed out like candy.
fund the spread of the theory of evolution and "alternative lifestyles"
fund the commission of secular "missionaries" to strongarm other countries to promote abortion overseas

and we are all but denied our freedom of speech in school, at graduations, and we are hounded and labeled at bigots if we voice our opinions in any way??? What kind of bullying is this? Who are the REAL bullies in our society today? And what can atheists possibly have to complain about in this regard??
11 minutes ago - 3 days left to answer.
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3 minutes ago
Kharm, there are no laws in any part of this country against atheists running for office. Are you suggesting that Christians not be allowed to vote now?

Bethany J, Yahoo Answers 36 Comments [7/21/2008 6:00:05 AM]
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Mike

Cue pie chart.

7/21/2008 6:09:01 AM

LordJiro

Why do atheist complain so much about Christians' influence on government and education when?
it is our own tax dollars with which we are forced to:

And atheist's tax dollars

fund abortions which we are adamantly opposed to

They'll happen whether they're legal or not. The best we can do is make sure they're done safely.

fund art that directly blasphemes are God

Your god must be a huge pussy if he's so offended by drawings and statues

fund the promotion of promiscuity in the school system with birthcontrol and condoms passed out like candy.

As opposed to telling the kids nothing about sex, other than 'don't do it', and being surprised when they end up pregnant anyway? Teens fuck. It's a fact of life.

fund the spread of the theory of evolution and "alternative lifestyles"

Education and tolerance! ONOES!

fund the commission of secular "missionaries" to strongarm other countries to promote abortion overseas

LOLWUT

and we are all but denied our freedom of speech in school, at graduations, and we are hounded and labeled at bigots if we voice our opinions in any way??? What kind of bullying is this? Who are the REAL bullies in our society today? And what can atheists possibly have to complain about in this regard??

One, you're allowed to play in school and at graduations. You simply can't force other people to pray with you. Two, stop spouting bigoted opinions (Being gay is a disease! Women should be barefoot, submissive, and pregnant! Atheists are exactly like Nazis!), and you might not get hounded.

11 minutes ago - 3 days left to answer.
Additional Details

3 minutes ago
Kharm, there are no laws in any part of this country against atheists running for office. Are you suggesting that Christians not be allowed to vote now?

There are no laws against an atheist running...but it's practically impossible for atheists to win any major office these days, since you fundie idiots will vote against them no matter what their stance. We're not asking Christians to stop voting. We just wish they'd vote with their *minds* instead of their Bible

7/21/2008 6:13:05 AM

autofire372


7/21/2008 6:18:25 AM

aaa

Groan...

7/21/2008 6:37:12 AM

RBM11

There are laws against atheists, but some have been overturned. From wikipedia:

"Arkansas' Constitution of 1874 (Article 19, Section 1) states: "Atheists disqualified from holding office or testifying as witness. No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court."[24]
North Carolina's Constitution of 1971 (Article 6, Section 8) states: "Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God...."[25]. This was challenged and overturned by Voswinkel v. Hunt (1979).[citation needed]
South Carolina's Constitution of 2006 (Article 6, Section 2) states: "Person denying existence of Supreme Being not to hold office. No person who denies the existence of the Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution."[26]
Tennessee's Constitution/Bill of Rights (Article 9, Section 2) states: "No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."[27]
Texas' Constitution: The Bill of Rights (Article I, Section 4) last amended on September 13, 2003 states that an official may be "excluded from holding office" if she/he does not "acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."[28]
Maryland's Bill of Rights:[29]
Article 36: "That as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty; wherefore, no person ought by any law to be molested in his person or estate, on account of his religious persuasion, or profession, or for his religious practice, unless, under the color of religion, he shall disturb the good order, peace or safety of the State, or shall infringe the laws of morality, or injure others in their natural, civil or religious rights; nor ought any person to be compelled to frequent, or maintain, or contribute, unless on contract, to maintain, any place of worship, or any ministry; nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God, and that under His dispensation such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefore either in this world or in the world to come."
Article 37: "That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution."
Pennsylvania's Declaration of Rights (Article I, Section 4) reads "No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth."

7/21/2008 6:40:27 AM

Tired Christian

I love that pie chart.

7/21/2008 6:48:10 AM

approximate

I love that pie chart too.

7/21/2008 6:50:08 AM

Beeblebrox

We as atheists are forced to:

fund abortions which we are adamantly opposed to

Fund theist activities by granting churches tax exemption.

fund art that directly blasphemes are God

Permit theist attacks on scientific institutions via lawsuits.

fund the promotion of promiscuity in the school system with birthcontrol and condoms passed out like candy.

Place "warning stickers" in scientific text books that lend weight to discredited Creationist hypotheses.

fund the spread of the theory of evolution and "alternative lifestyles"

Grant respect to theist beliefs that denigrate Humans for the terrible sin of existing and exercising free will.

fund the commission of secular "missionaries" to strongarm other countries to promote abortion overseas

Suffer the world-wide embarrassment of admitting that America operates the largest theistic missionary operations on the planet, which are purely aimed at forcing local populations to abandon their religious beliefs under the "gun" of supernatural threats.

and we are all but denied our freedom of speech in school, at graduations...

Public schools are prohibited from promoting any religious ideas or agendas by dint of being operated by tax dollars.

...and we are hounded and labeled at bigots if we voice our opinions in any way???

We are hounded and labeled as monsters if we voice our opinions in any way. Atheists also have to stand still when we are called "heathens" and threatened with supernatural and deific punishments for voicing our observations of the reality around us.

Of the last 4 presidential administrations 3 were openly allied with fundamental Christianity. Reagan, Bush Sr., and Bush Jr. promoted faith-based legislations that pushed theist agendas regarding morality. Let's also not forget that presidential candidates (or, indeed, any political candidate) must make a show of their religious beliefs in order to appeal to the greatest number of voters.

When was the last time you heard of an atheist political candidate winning an election?



7/21/2008 7:03:43 AM

Nowonmai

If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. Keep your rosaries off my ovaries!

You are the same sort of self righteous idiot that bitches about abortion but is for the death penalty,

7/21/2008 7:16:54 AM

Joe-Bob

@ RBM11,

I noticed most of that was copy-pasted off of wikipedia (which is cool, but just saying). So I went to westlaw to check on this Voswinkel v. Hunt. I was hoping just to provide a citation. Unfortunately Westlaw has no case (in any jurisdiction) with the name "voswinkel v. hunt" on record.

Furthermore, when I keycited the actual clause in question I found no negative citing references of North Carolina's Article 6 Section 8. The best I found was a law review article (8 U. Pa. J. Const. L. 585) written by a Vincent Phillip Munoz in 2006 (apologies for the inability to add the proper accent over the "n" in Munoz) that outlines a current dispute in the Supreme Court over the proper meaning of the First Amendment. The author cites the following ideas

1) Souter's "separation" doctrine
2) Rehnquist's "non-preferential" doctrine(Scalia appears to be a devotee of this doctrine as well)
3) Thomas' "federalist" approach

The author concludes that Thomas' federalist approach is most likely the true original meaning of the First Amendment and that this approach would bar incorporation to the States under the 14th Amendment. This is contrary to what I see as the general willingness of the U.S. Supreme Court to incorporate any and all of the original ten amendments and apply them to the state.

The Short Summary:
I find no evidence for the existence of the cited case, and as far as I can tell the North Carolina section could, and probably is, still be in effect.
Furthermore, there is (albeit weak) persuasive authority that the First Amendment would not strike down this law.

Sincerely,
A law student with too much time on his hands.

7/21/2008 7:22:19 AM

Joe-Bob

On another note the parts of the Maryland Constitution requiring a belief in a God have directly been struck down by Torasco v. Watkins (367 U.S. 488). The principle case appears to be directly applicable to the North Carolina law, but the U.S. Supreme Court has been horribly inconsistent in its application of the establishment clause as noted by several commentators and court members themselves.

However, another nail in the coffin for this Voswinkel v. Hunt case is that a law review specifically on the NC clause didn't pick up on that case. The law review is "Something there is that doesn't love a wall: reflections on the history of North Carolina's religious test for public office" by Gary R. Govert 64 N.C. L. Rev. 1071. Written in 1986 you'd think someone writing specifically on the clause in question would have found Voswinkel v. Hunt.

7/21/2008 7:42:33 AM

Joe-Bob

Ok, I can find no mention of Voswinkel v. Hunt in the legal literature, but I find it all over the web in popular blogs. If anyone has any information on this please let me know.

7/21/2008 7:53:07 AM

FMG

1. Because of human rights.
2. Because art is art, if you don't like a piece of art, you don't go look at a piece of art.
3. Abstinence only birth control is like teaching pool safety by not teaching kids how to swim.
4. Theory of evolution is amongst the most bullet proof of our theories. Show us a flaw and we will remove it by research. Your faith was once an alternative lifestyle.
5. While your guys do the same with your religious missionaries who destroy local culture with their rice conversions often causing massive amounts of suffering.

Because the opinions you voice are bigoted. I hate jews is just as bigoted as I hate the gays. It puts you on the same level as the freaking KKK. We want equality, not your version of equality where you are more equal than everyone else since you are the tyranny of the majority.

7/21/2008 9:46:11 AM

Lulzmonger

THIS IS DELICIOUS PIE, YOU MUST EAT IT.

7/21/2008 9:58:39 AM

Princess Rot

Waaa! Other people's beliefs are respected and mine are not pushed down their throats! Waaa!

7/21/2008 10:44:14 AM

IanC

@ Beeblebrox-

"Place "warning stickers" in scientific text books that lend weight to discredited Creationist hypotheses. "
Really? Wow that is messed up.

7/21/2008 10:51:09 AM

Brain_In_A_Jar

Everyone pays taxes, and everyone (ideally, at least) has an equal say in what they pay for. You can't get fairer than that. The force that is exerted on you to pay your taxes and accept that the spending allocation of them be decided by the democratic government is part of the terms of your citizenship; if you think that's unfair, you're perfectly entitled to emigrate or become a stateless person.

7/21/2008 11:05:12 AM

Comicartist

@ Tired Christian, approximate

Yeah, we all love that pie chart.

7/21/2008 11:24:40 AM

szena

I'm forced to help pay for all sorts of things I don't agree with, like a war that costs more per HOUR than all your pet peeves put together will in your lifetime.

Half of them aren't true anyway. You'll have to look long and hard to find publicly funded art that blasphemes your God. In case you haven't heard, the government is funding "abstinence only" sex ed programs in spite of the fact that they don't work. Those secular missionaries promoting abortion overseas simply don't exist. Most of what you object to is figments of some overactive fundie imagination.

When you have something substantial to complain about, get back to us.


7/21/2008 11:53:35 AM

Waiting for God

"Joe-Bob,

Don't have time to verify or even investigate this for you very far as I am currently at work and my time is limited, however, this might be what you are looking for:

Voswinkel vs Hunt.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=wa&vol=2003_app/283646maj&invol=3

7/21/2008 12:45:29 PM

Mister Spak

Why do fundies complain so much about atheists' influence on government and education when?
it is our own tax dollars with which we are forced to:

fund anti abortion lies which we are adamantly opposed to
cancel funding for art that offends your mythology
fund the promotion of ignorance in the school system with ignorance based sex education.
fund the spread of the myth of creating and "alternative theories"
fund the commission of religious "missionaries" to strongarm other countries to outlaw abortion overseas

Fixed.



7/21/2008 12:57:11 PM

anon

'Why do atheist complain so much about Christians' influence on government and education when?'

Because you fundy shitheads are trying to force your own twisted religious beliefs on everyone else by using the law to do so.

'and we are all but denied our freedom of speech in school, at graduations, and we are hounded and labeled at bigots if we voice our opinions in any way???'

Bullshit, asshole. You aren't denied freedom of speech, but you can't use a school to push your beliefs (except in private fundy schools), and a lot of you act bigoted with such sickening proclamations as demanding internment camps for gays, imprisonment for un-believers, trying to ban evoloution in schools, forcing women to carry a pregnancy to term (even if it was the result of rape, incest, has genetic deformities, or is drug/alcohol addicted) - etc, etc. Of course, that's normal for fundies - they are all about CONTROLLING and DOMINATING other people.

7/21/2008 1:58:17 PM

Giveitaday

fund the commission of secular "missionaries" to strongarm other countries to promote abortion overseas

Global Gag Rule, BITCH!!!

7/21/2008 5:51:42 PM

Beeblebrox

Ian C.: Messed up, indeed. Sadly though, it is true. I can hear the Europeans, the British, and most of the rest of the civilized world laughing at us.

7/21/2008 7:22:36 PM

Old Viking

Much of this he extracted from his nether region. The balance has me so choked up with sympathy that I just can't go on.

7/21/2008 7:29:45 PM

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