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And yet, oddly enough, I have -never- "had faith," or believed in "god" or had any need or desire to, as far back as I can remember.
There has never been any sort of "void" in me, yearning to be filled.
Unfortunately for Stacey, "rationality," by definition, is the exact opposite of blindly accepting the existence of an omnipotent god--who has nothing better to do in the vastness of the universe than worry over whether some insignificant creatures on one tiny planet out of BILLIONS are showing it enough worship and love--without the SLIGHTEST bit of evidence. That nonsense is what she calls "faith."
There is, in fact, such a thing as an athiest, and I am living proof.
4/8/2008 3:46:35 AM
No I don't know everything. I can however prove the non-existence of the Christian god quite easily.
Can you prove there is a god?
4/8/2008 3:48:35 AM
Man, I guess that means every believe in magic invisible elves that surround us at all times - I mean, since we can't disprove them and all.
I have a question however: Are those with stunted mental abilities attracted to fundamental religious groups, or do fundamental religious group stunt mental abilities?
Oh my, I wonder which.
4/8/2008 3:52:09 AM
Grand Archblasphemer of York
Although you are right in what you are stating, the atheist whose beliefs (non-beliefs?) you are attacking so vehemently probably does not exist. Most atheists hold a far more nuanced position than the one you are opposing here, and it tends to resemble agnosticism, and is not the argument that there is no God, but rather that a God is unlikely, that no religion is more accurate than any other, and thus it is a copout to believe in any one over any other, or that a God who would punish for not believing in him is not worthy of worship anyway.
We do admit that we do not know...but we can still have an opinion, just like the God-folk tend to.
4/8/2008 3:58:29 AM
Um, there IS such a thing as an atheist. But your god doesn't exist. I can prove there are atheists; can you prove that your god exists? NO.
4/8/2008 4:01:01 AM
Fine, your childish, primitive concept of a big sky daddy, is ludicrous, absurd and provably incorrect from it's naive falsifiable claims.
Or do you choose to worship some kind of shy salamander species that lives under rocks in China and hides away from man?
4/8/2008 4:08:50 AM
Ok, then the reverse is also true. You can't make and absolute statement that God exists, and you can't use the purported 'holy book' as proof he does.
Only then will rational and fair conversations happen with you.
4/8/2008 4:09:30 AM
I think it is probably a little of both. The stories and ideas of religions are usually simplistic and attract those less mentally fortunate. Further, once you become part of that group and start living that lifestyle, mental stinting sort of just comes with the territory. They don't exactly hand out science textbooks at bible study.
4/8/2008 4:09:55 AM
God's existance cannot be proven or disproven, which means religious fundies such as yourself and atheists are both inherently correct.
4/8/2008 4:10:52 AM
"If you make an absolute statement that there is NO God, then you make the affirmation that you know all things and that you can actually prove this."
And yet you don't have to do that to believe [not prove] that there IS a God?
4/8/2008 4:11:13 AM
Stacey honey, check a dictionary to learn what a word means before opening your mouth and proving yourself a fool.
4/8/2008 4:21:24 AM
I hate to point this out time and time again, but the gods that humans have obviously created DO NOT exist, because man invented them.
My reasoning is because the gods described in their respective documents are too human. An omnipotent being would not be so jealous, for example.
But, the concept of an energy beyond our universe that might be responsible for creation, that's another question, but one should question if such an energy would even have a conscience...without getting too philosophical, I just don't believe in what most people could consider a "creator".
4/8/2008 4:22:17 AM
Oh, shut up.
4/8/2008 4:25:41 AM
"Are those with stunted mental abilities attracted to fundamental religious groups, or do fundamental religious group stunt mental abilities?"
That is so funny. It's unfortunately kinda both though. Especially in America, though i really don't know why we have so much of it, compared to the general rest of the world.
4/8/2008 4:28:28 AM
While theoretically correct, to become an agnostic would require that I give credence to the possibility that there is a god. I do not. Nor do I give thought to the possibility that there is an Ancient Wyrm Red Dragon sleeping under my house, or that the sun will not rise tomorrow, or that I will inexplicably die in my sleep.
I do not know that any of these things are impossible, but they are so improbable that it is not worth wasting time thinking on it. So I am an atheist - because acknowledging the possibility of a deity would only lead to a path of absolute skepticism - acknowledging the possibility of even the most ludicrous claims: the table in front of me might actually be an illusion created by my senses, but there might be an invisible pink unicorn standing behind me.
I afford the same credibility to gods as I do to Nigerian scammers. I don't have evidence that they're lying, but I have no reason to believe they are true.
4/8/2008 4:31:13 AM
Can I prove that God doesn't exist? No. Or rather, can I prove that some type of being, with immense power, that may or may not have some kind of wants or needs, that may or may not have created all of us, and may or may not know/understand/care about our existence in any way exists? No. I mean, still, I have no reason to think such a being may exist, so I don't.
YOUR God, however? That's a different story. YOUR fundie Christian God is extremely falsifiable, thanks to fundies themselves. Because you people keep insisting on ascribing endless characteristics to your God. What He can do, what He can't do, what He wants us to do, what He did do, etc. You describe what He looks like, His methods of operation, nearly everything about Him, as if this "God" character was like your next door neighbor.
THIS God, the God of the Bible, is incredibly specific, and in a way that the specifics make no sense. They have no precedent; your stories are just stories, describing things no one has ever seen happen.
So no, I can't prove the existence of some indescribable Supreme Being, but the God of the Bible? That's an absurd joke.
4/8/2008 4:41:37 AM
"Especially in America, though i really don't know why we have so much of it, compared to the general rest of the world."
Religious persecution also has its good sides...
4/8/2008 4:41:45 AM
All the evidence says there is no god, ergo...
There is no god.
4/8/2008 4:47:54 AM
There is NO SUCH THING as god. If you make an absolute statement that there is a God, then you make the affirmation that you know all things and that you can actually prove this. This is like somebody making a statement that there is no gold in China. You would have to be everywhere at one time and know what is under every rock and in every area of the land, in every man’s home, inside of each person mouth etc. It would not be proveable! [sic+1] Don’t try to argue that you say there is a God because you cannot prove there is! You cannot make an absolute statement and try to rationalize it by using the negative argument. It does not hold up. At least admit that YOU DON’T KNOW and take your first step toward agnosticism. Only then will you become more rational and realize love, kindness, and fellowship are human traits, and require no god to force submission.
4/8/2008 4:54:38 AM
@ Grand Archblasphemer of York
I think you put that very well. I believe many of us (atheists) often forget that many of them (fundamentalists) are not necessarily just engaging in religious demagoguery but truly may have distorted views of what (most) atheists really believe and why. I think we should give the fundamentalists we meet the benefit of the doubt that, if we try and educate them, then we may actually build some understanding and tolerance.
4/8/2008 4:59:04 AM
I actually agree with some of this. Guess that makes me an agnostic atheist.
This does not mean I am agnostic of gods described by the religions of man. That would just be retarded.
4/8/2008 5:26:21 AM
I admit that I cannot prove absolutely, positively, for sure that there is no god, just as I cannot prove that Bugs Bunny doesn't rule the planet Zoltan which is shaped like a Cheeto. I can prove that the God of the Bible doesn't exist. There is a mountain of evidence showing that.
I am an atheist in that the evidence or lack of evidence shows that it is, for me, the most reasonable position. For me, it seems that the chance of a deity actually existing is so minute that I feel quite comfortable in dismissing it entirely.
4/8/2008 5:38:28 AM
"There is no evidence for the existence of God. The most rational thing is to assume there isn't a God until evidence arises that there is."
Technically, that's agnosticism, which is why I call myself agnostic, but you'll find a lot of people, including most atheists, call that atheist.
4/8/2008 5:46:36 AM
An atheist is simply one who doesn't believe in god(s).
The gold in china nonsense is one of Ray Cumfart's arguments which I think he came up when abusing himself with a banana.
4/8/2008 5:53:05 AM
SO CLOSE! SO CLOSE TO MAKING SO MANY POINTS I AGREE WITH!
Unfortunately, missed concluding that proving something doesn't exist directly is impossible. That saying there is a god of any kind is making a statement about the divine/supernatural. And I'm not sure when they say, "faith" they mean, "accepting things that can't be formally proven."
But you know- I'll take what I can get!
OH! AND FOR THE REST OF YOU! http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic
Look it up. It apparently does not mean what I thought it did, and is in fact a richer word than I had thought!
4/8/2008 6:25:48 AM
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