Quote# 31360
[Another lesson from a college-level teacher of logic... RE: If the world must have had a creator, what created God?]
Every effect must have a cause and every creation has to have a creator, God is neither an effect, nor a creation, so does not have to have a cause or a creator. That's how it is explained in Logic at least.
The other reason this is so is that only something that actually has a beginning has to have something "cause" it, or "start" it. Since God is outside of time, He cannot have a beginning, by sheer definition because the term "beginning" is a slave to time. There is no "before" God, because He exists outside of time. Since there is no "before" God, He is self-existent, hence "I AM."
Kliska,
Rapture Ready 35 Comments [11/19/2007 6:57:36 PM]
Fundie Index: 0
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#339753
Frank
What's the difference between self-existent and existent? Just asking.
11/20/2007 6:55:03 AM
#339775
Rather than who created God, we'd be glad to tell us what is God, anti-matter or what?
11/20/2007 7:23:10 AM
#339790
Wrayth
I love how something is explained 'in Logic', as if it's a different place or something.
"How was your holiday?" "Oh, it was great. Went to Logic, nice little B&B there, had a great philosophical discussion with the owner..."
Anyway, I've always enjoyed the overlying logic here. 'I don't know how the universe started, so evidently God made it'
'I don't know how this clock was made, so evidently gnomish engineers were involved'.
11/20/2007 7:33:44 AM
#339956
Jezebel's Evil Sister
"... God is neither an effect, nor a creation..."
Right; he's a myth.
11/20/2007 11:09:59 AM
#340018
David D.G.
Teaches logic at the university level?!?
Riiiiight, and I am the Czar of all the Russias.
~David D.G.
11/20/2007 12:34:48 PM
#340099
Brain_In_A_Jar
A good effort, but now tell us why we can't just apply that reasoning to the universe itself and do away with the unnecessary extra concept of god.
11/20/2007 2:56:44 PM
#340100
Brain_In_A_Jar
I say again, I have never understood this "I AM" bit.
Pro Tip: Neither do the people saying it.
They have a warm, fuzzy feeling of security that they associate with deep understanding, but if you were to ask them to clearly explain such an assertion they wouldn't have a bloody clue.
11/20/2007 3:00:02 PM
#340282
Athar
I am eternal.
I am the engine of life.
The purifying cycle of death and rebirth to which all souls are inextricably bound.
You god is sounding a hell of a lot like the soul eating elder god(RIP Tony Jay) in legacy of kain.
11/20/2007 8:30:45 PM
#341195
Susan
This makes no sense. You saying god is not a creation does not make it true.
11/21/2007 8:18:46 PM
#566964
boomSLANG
"Every effect must have a cause and every creation has to have a creator, God is neither an effect, nor a creation"
This is special pleading. The Universe(Uni-verse), by definition, is everything that exists. If everything that exists has a "creator", then "God", who presumably "exists", is not exempt from this rule. Furthermore, to "create"; to "design"; to contemplate to "design", are all temporal acts, and thus, "God" cannot exist "outside of time". It is a philisophical contradiction.
7/1/2008 3:11:14 AM
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