Necronomikron

Umm.. treaty of tripoli and all...

Oh, and, the abrahamic god is still the abrahamic god.

10/30/2007 10:53:40 PM

Osiris

Yes they did write about Christianity. Most of it not positive.

10/30/2007 11:04:01 PM

Mike

An Abrahamic god is still an Abrahamic god.

Secondly Jenova and the FSM trump your god.

10/30/2007 11:30:18 PM

Zadic

You're absolutely, 100% correct on your founding father statement. I see no reason to doubt their intentions either...

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half of the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind."
-Paine

"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England."
-Franklin

"I looked around for God's judgments, but saw no signs of them."
-Franklin

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
-Jefferson

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
-Madison

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"
-Adams

10/30/2007 11:54:39 PM

onions

Auburn fans, ew

10/31/2007 12:08:39 AM

Rhys

Zadic for the win!

10/31/2007 12:11:51 AM

Hollio

The Founding Fathers had various things to say about Christianity, some of them good and some of them bad. In the end one can see that not all of them had the same belief system.

10/31/2007 1:15:30 AM

If the God of Islam is not the God of the Bible, why do they use a similar cognate to name him(Elohim, Allah), have the same prophets and traditions, and is monotheistic in his nature?. Moreover, which denomination is Deist(as Franklin and Jefferson were)or agnostic is exactly?

10/31/2007 2:27:29 AM

anevilmeme

"First of all, the false god of Islam is not the same God as the God of the Bible."

Incorrect, Jews, Christians & Muslems all worship the same mythical, god.

"Second, given how often the Founding Fathers wrote and spoke of Christianity, I don't see how there would be any doubt as to their intentions."

Agreed. The Founders didn't mention God, Jesus, the Bible or Christianity in the Constitution and Bill or Rights. The Declaration of Independence mentions "nature and nature's God" however, that was written by a Deist named Jefferson. And lastly: Treaty of Tripoli Bitch!

10/31/2007 3:55:48 AM

Prager

WarEagle would benefit from reading a real history book.

10/31/2007 4:11:20 AM

Wurdulac

Actually, he is correct in that the god of Islam is not the same as the god of the Christian bible. Similar, yes, they share many characteristics, but they are not the same.

For two things to be considered the same thing, they need to share the exact same characteristics. If we are shown two pictures of trees, and asked if they are the same tree, we could only conclude that they are if they appear the same. The Christian god, the Jewish god and the Muslim god all exhibit different characteristics, therefore they can not be the same entity.

Did god have a son? Christians say yes, while Jews and Muslims say no.

Did god send a messiah to earth? Again, Christians say yes, and Jews and Muslims say no.

Does god have human attributes? Christians and Jews say yes, while Muslims say no.

Of course, even within a given theistic religion, the characteristics attributed to that religion's god(s) will vary, therefore this distinction is less important in determining which religion a person belongs to. The best way to determine that would be to ask them what religion they belong to.

Also, regarding the Founding Fathers comment, it depends on which Founding Fathers we are speaking; the ones who were most influential in drafting the Constitution and other legal documents, or the ones they had to convince to sign said documents. The former tended to be quite critical of religion in general, while the latter tended to be Christians themselves.

10/31/2007 4:14:43 AM

Seamus D

Failed to read your homework assignment? Again?

10/31/2007 4:55:10 AM

Mister Spak

"Second, given how often the Founding Fathers wrote and spoke of Christianity, I don't see how there would be any doubt as to their intentions."

Since it was not mentioned in the declaration of independance, yeah, I don't see how there would be any doubt about their intentions.

10/31/2007 5:26:20 AM

Blackvoice

As far as I know they share origins. Jews were first, still haven't found a messiah. Christians came second, found one and wrote a new book. Muslims came third, found a messiah (more like he found them) and wrote a new book. Muslims consider Jesus an important prophet, so yeah.

we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another.

Thanks, Frank. :D

10/31/2007 5:39:33 AM

Caustic Gnostic

Wrong on both counts.

[edit]

Thanks, Zadic. Good stuff there.

10/31/2007 6:04:47 AM

The Flying Spaghetti Monster

Sorry
Same nonexistent god of Abraham.
Do get at least a tiny education.

10/31/2007 6:26:49 AM

The Project Hate

If God of Islam is different from God of Christianity, why do the muslims consider Abraham and Jeebus as prophets ?

10/31/2007 10:17:32 AM

Old Viking

We never said there was a doubt about the intentions of the founding fathers. Their opinions of Christianity were frequently scathing, and there is no mention of it in the Constitution. Welcome to the real world.

10/31/2007 11:16:43 AM

Papabear

First, you're wrong and a quick reading of the Torah and the Koran would have told you so.

Second, you're wrong and a quick reading of what many of the founding fathers wrote would have told you so.

10/31/2007 11:32:20 AM

484

@ Mike
FSM for t3h win!11!

Christians go to a heaven where there will be no marriage, we go to a heaven that is a beer volcano... and a stripper factory.

10/31/2007 12:30:33 PM

Jesus Klingon

Yes, the false gOd of iSlam is the same as the false gOd of the bIble.

10/31/2007 2:03:27 PM

Flatworm

@Wurdulac:



By those criteria you would be hard pressed to find two Christian denominations that worship the same God, or even two Christians.

10/31/2007 3:10:09 PM

The Watcher

I wonder where these fundies get the idea that "The Founding Fathers" all thought as one singular, monolithic entity with no disagreement.

10/31/2007 3:12:48 PM

Caustic Gnostic

Franklin, Jefferson, and Paine seem to have been on the same page, at least.

Washington never gave a shit about which religion a man professed, or indeed his race.

10/31/2007 3:53:37 PM

Julian

Wurdulac - people's perceptions of the same imaginary entity, does not split it into two imaginary entities, just as there is not a different Santa for every kid.

You just stated the Catholic God is a different entity to the Protestant God to the Mormon God to the Exclusive Brethren God, to the Methodist God, to the Baptist God, to the Orthodox God, to the Cathar God, to the Donatist God, to the god called Yahweh of thousands of other fucked up cults that sit under the 'umbrella' of Christianity.

Same 'God' - different lies and delusions.

10/31/2007 6:15:19 PM