westernjoe #fundie

westernjoe #fundie christianforums.com

I put my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Let's take a look at what evolutionists put their faith in:

1) Evolutionists put their faith in a mysterious primordial swamp that produced life from non-life.

2) Evolutionists put their faith in the fact that fish can morph into amphibians...that amphibians can morph into reptiles..that retiles can morph into mammals...that apes can morph into humans.

3) Evolutionists put their faith in thousands of common ancestors that have never been found.

4) Evolutionists put their faith in beneficial random mutations which have never proven to be random.

5) Evolutionists put their faith in natural selection, which has never even been tested.

6) Evolutionists put their faith in flawed dating techniques.

7) Evolutionists put their faith in the hopes that humans are actually apes.

8) Evolutionists put their faith in the hopes that a monkey can morph into a human simply by hopping down from tree branches and walking out into wide open spaces.

9) Evolutionists put their faith that a giant explosion could produce order.

10) Evolutionists put their faith that DNA could self-organize from randomly arising chemicals.

109 comments

old comment by The Watcher

Let's look at what fundies put their faith in:
1) A God who has never been seen by anybody. 2) A God whose entire existence hinges on whether a 2,000 year old book of fairy tales, translated several times, by lots of people with axes to grind, got everything right. 3) A God who, if He exists, creates people who are handicapped simply because they don't have enough suffering in their lives. 4) A God who creates people who are gay, then tells us we should hate them. 5) A God who caused divisions among all the world's people and then expects one group to kill or convert all the others, and to top it all off, won't say which one is right. 6) A God who can do all this, because he is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-seeing, who possesses literally limitless abilities, and yet won't take responsibility for anything bad happening because Satan is a better scapegoat.

old comment by Adrian

1.) If you took the time to look at a simple bacteria cell, you would see that everything that it up is not alive and can easily be made in a labratory.
2.) Humans are apes. And it's not morphing, as we have not yet unlocked the secrets to the Antilites cube yet. 3.) Yes they have. Scientists wouldn't say they existed if they couldn't prove it. 4.) The fact that we have drug resistant strains of bacteria created through a beneficial mutation and then selected naturally should really tip you off. 5.) See number 4. 6.) Radioactive dating has a 99% success rate. 7.) We fit all the criteria. 8.) Humans didn't evolve from monkies, we each have a similar common ancestor. Actually we are more closely related to gorillas, who don't live in trees. 9.) The Big Bang wasn't and explosion. And who ever said that the Universe is an ordely place? 10.) It can. We've done in labrotory experiments.

old comment by Zadic

You assume they have faith to begin with, but to be fair the only thing I put my "faith" in, (if you really want to call it that, which I do not) is the scientific community. I trust the peer review system to weed out bad ideas/scientists and I trust them to present the best knowledge that they have at the time as well as to update it as new evidence comes along. Which means even if there was new evidence that undid one of your listings (assuming of course that you knew what you were talking about and listed something that was actually scientific) I would have no problem with it. Why is this, you ask? Well because everything they find out can be reviewed by anyone who takes the time to learn how to do so. If a scientist says that there is salt in ocean water not only will dozens of other scientists come along to test it with the possibility of eventually confirming or disproving that, but I could learn to use those testing methods to look for myself. Religion, has no such check system - "The Bible says it and we believe it's the word of god. To say otherwise makes you a heretic and if the state wasn't stopping us we'd be killing you right now." That's where your faith lies. Enjoy.

old comment by Papabear

"I put my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Let's take a look at what evolutionists put their faith in:"
As and atheist and one who understands and accepts the ToE, I do not have faith in anything. Faith is belief in an assertion with not evidence supporting that assertion. Faith is not a good thing. "1) Evolutionists put their faith in a mysterious primordial swamp that produced life from non-life." Yes, I believe that at some point something inanimate became life, however, the method and surroundings are unknown. This is not a matter of faith. It is amazing, yes, but not as ridiculous as the religious stories of the origins of life. "2) Evolutionists put their faith in the fact that fish can morph into amphibians...that amphibians can morph into reptiles..that retiles can morph into mammals...that apes can morph into humans." Given the proper environmental conditions and enough time, I can accept that as an almost true, simplistic explanation of the ToE. Still not a matter of faith though. "3) Evolutionists put their faith in thousands of common ancestors that have never been found." Conclusive evidence that evolution has and is taking place does not require the presentation of evidence for every step of evolution. "4) Evolutionists put their faith in beneficial random mutations which have never proven to be random." The best evidence shows that the mutations involved in evolution are random. Natural selection is NOT random. Mutation and natural selection are required for evolution. Mutations are not a matter of faith. "5) Evolutionists put their faith in natural selection, which has never even been tested." That is simply untrue. Though you Fundies hate to admit it, the pepper moth is a perfect example of natural selection, as is anti-biotic resistant bacteria, and there are many others, too. Not a matter of faith. "6) Evolutionists put their faith in flawed dating techniques." No, when used properly, scientific dating techniques are reasonably accurate. Mistakes can be made, but those mistakes are corrected reasonably quickly by other scientists. Dating techniques are not a matter of faith. "7) Evolutionists put their faith in the hopes that humans are actually apes." We do not base our conclusions on that which we do or do not wish to be true. Science leads where it leads, whether the conclusions are warm and fuzzy or horrifying. The fact that humans are apes is not a matter of faith. "8) Evolutionists put their faith in the hopes that a monkey can morph into a human simply by hopping down from tree branches and walking out into wide open spaces." That is a gross misrepresentation of the ToE and I suspect you know it. You know, there is a commandment against lying, weiniejoe. Your misrepresentation of the ToE is only a matter of faith to you and your stupid pals. "9) Evolutionists put their faith that a giant explosion could produce order." The ToE and the Big Bang are two different, seperate theories. Understanding and acceptance of one does not imply understanding and acceptance of the other. That aside, the Big Bang is not a matter of faith. All the best evidence shows it to be a fact. "10) Evolutionists put their faith that DNA could self-organize from randomly arising chemicals." This is essentially points #1, 4 & 5 revisited. Remember, natural selection is not random. You're an idiot.

old comment by Julian

Ignoring retarded use of the word faith.........
1) Evolutionists put their faith in a mysterious primordial swamp that produced life from non-life. Soup. A swamp needs plant life dumbass. No it doesn't come with croutons, they're also made from plant life. 2) Evolutionists put their faith in the fact that fish can morph into amphibians...that amphibians can morph into reptiles..that retiles can morph into mammals...that apes can morph into humans. Did, not can. They're also diverging branches, so what we know today as amphibians, fish, reptiles and mammals are not what we evolved from. 3) Evolutionists put their faith in thousands of common ancestors that have never been found. Apart from the 'never been found' bit, and that they're not all common ancestors. 4) Evolutionists put their faith in beneficial random mutations which have never proven to be random. Please learn something about genetics, they are entirely random. 5) Evolutionists put their faith in natural selection, which has never even been tested. Incorrect again, tested and proven on countless occasions. 6) Evolutionists put their faith in flawed dating techniques. Sorry, when you're done learning about genetics you can start on how carbon dating actually works instead of the rare exceptions, how it's indexed and then you can start on radiometry. 7) Evolutionists put their faith in the hopes that humans are actually apes. OK, now you're really stretching. We are apes. Bipedal omnivores with opposing thumbs, vestigial tails, binocular vision, need we continue dumbass? Who's hoping what? God was created in our image, not the other way round idiot! 8) Evolutionists put their faith in the hopes that a monkey can morph into a human simply by hopping down from tree branches and walking out into wide open spaces. You should've stopped at 6, you're just dribbling now and repeating yourself! 9) Evolutionists put their faith that a giant explosion could produce order. Order? What fucking order? Cosmology, biology, quantuum mechanics? What fucking order dumbass? Oh, do you mean your obsolete rule book? 10) Evolutionists put their faith that DNA could self-organize from randomly arising chemicals Chemistry is not random. Quantuum mechanics, while appearing potentially random due to the inability to provide exacting measurements, still is subject to the basic laws of nature and forces of the universe and averages out over the billions of trillions of particles required to make a speck of dust. Please get a clue what you're talking about, it'll be a lot less embarrassing to be you!

old comment by Mister Spak

"I put my faith in observable reality. Let's take a look at what fundies put their faith in:
1) Fundies put their faith in a mysterious spook that made a man out of dirt. 2)Fundies put their faith in the fact that an invisible spook can make fish, amphibians, reptiles and mammals. 3) Fundies put their faith in a written down creation myth from 6 thousand years ago. 4) Fundies put their faith in beneficial effect of obeying commands from an invisible spook that has never been proven to exist. 5) Fundies put their faith in their invisible spook which has never even been detected. 6) Fundies put their faith in flawed arguments. 7) Fundies put their faith in the hopes that they will get a payoff for obeying the invisible spook after they die. 8) Fundies put their faith in the hopes that he can get admission into the spooks carnival by chanting the correct words as he attacks the correct people. 9) Fundies put their faith that a giant man with a long white beard that lives in clouds will attack people they don't like. 10) Fundies put their faith that the invisible spook that created a world that couldn't have just happened, just happened.

old comment by David D.G.

<< Why do they complain constantly that we believe things that have "no proof," yet the things they believe also have no proof? >>
The Watcher: Because as far as they are concerned, the Bible is the ONLY proof. So whatever science comes up with that doesn't conflict with the Bible can be considered okay, and in fact they're always quite happy to trot out any science that appears to support the Bible as further "proof" of its validity -- but even they would say that's for our benefit, not theirs, since they didn't need further proof. But if science comes up with physical evidence and physical laws that match reality but that clearly conflict with the Bible, then obviously nothing that science presents there can be considered "proof" at all, since the "proof" of the Bible cannot be wrong or misleading, and any apparent support by reality is merely coincidence (or, more often, the work of Satan as trickster or God as tester). It's a completely bass-ackward delusional mindset, and it makes my head hurt to contemplate it for long. ~David D.G.

old comment by Will

I agree wholeheartedly.
Numbers 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10 are all stupid, impossible theories which deserve no further study,.. until you realize the time-scale is more than 4000 years. This is why I understand your difficult position. Evolutionists put their faith that a giant explosion could produce order. : explosion may have been bout 14,000,000,000 years ago, (you will live 70) From there to RNA : 10,000,000,000 years (read, long time) Evolutionists put their faith in the hopes that a monkey can morph into a human simply by hopping down from tree branches and walking out into wide open spaces: bout 3,000,000 years pass from them to us. That is maybe 100,000 generations, most of which took the survival data of hundreds of thousands of lives and passed that to the well understood process of natural selection Until you understand the timescale we accept, you will find the whole thing ridiculous.

old comment by Jim

"3) Evolutionists put their faith in thousands of common ancestors that have never been found."
First, I would tell 'westernjoe' to start by reading the definition of 'faith'; you know, "belief in something despite a lack of proof, or even overwhelming evidence to the contrary". Might want to also check "delusion"... Now... Simple little explanation: My sister and I both come from my parents. I'm sure you may have come across a similar situation somewhere? My children did not evolve from hers. Still stupidly obvious, right? I mean, hell, my first son was almost five when my niece was born. Its obvious my niece and nephew aren't decended from my own kids, nor from me (I hope the same goes for yours). Right? But they do share a common ancestor: My parents are the grandparents to all four of those kids. And my 95 year old grandmother is great-grandmother to all of them (and more) too. And her mother? that would be their great-great grandmother if she was still alive. And you can just keep going back like this as far as you want right? That's what a common ancestor is. My sons both have black hair, from my dear wife. Her son and daughter are both blonde. My niece has freckles, yet no one in the family has had freckles for generations, even on my brother-in-law's side of the family. Now imagine such tiny differences keep going on for millions, and billions of years. We did not decend from apes, just as apes did not evolve from that salmon I ate this morning. But go back really, REALLY far (far past what some *falsely* claim is the planet's age), and we'll have a common ancestor back there, who's offpsring may have been ever-so-slightly different, just as in your family. And all those little tiny mutations over time led to all these different creatures. Bacteria can VISIBLY change since their generations go by so quickly compared to us. And what do you think mixing dog-breeds is? That's not "faith", its what evolution really is.

old comment by Gnomist

1) Molecular Biology 101
2) Not Morph, Evolve and Not Individuals, Populations. 3)No they don't and yes they have. 4)Yes they have and they're not necessarily beneficial. 5)Yes they have. Over and over again. 6)Your definition of flawed interests me. You're saying that a book, written by men, based on verbal stories and altered and translated hundreds of times isn't flawed. Have you ever played Chinese Whispers. Now imagine it done over a millenia. 7)Faith isn't put anywhere, neither is hope. Humans aren't apes, go read a book. 8)Populations. Lots of time. Environmental change. 9) Order? Where? And go read a book. 10) Self organise eh? Stop talking about shit you don;t understnad and would never care to you ignorant peice of shit. We don;t need you or your kind in the world anymore, kindly fuck off and die you scum.

old comment by BrandonH

1) Evolutionists put their faith in a mysterious primordial swamp that produced life from non-life.
1) Fundies place there faith in a celestial being of myth that is greater than all life...not to mention with no evidence of his existance. 2) Evolutionists put their faith in the fact that fish can morph into amphibians...that amphibians can morph into reptiles..that retiles can morph into mammals...that apes can morph into humans. 2) Fundies place there faith in the idea that god made all life...yet why would he create them to show disbelief for him. 3) Evolutionists put their faith in thousands of common ancestors that have never been found. 3) Fundies place their faith in something they guessed...we have found proof retard. 4) Evolutionists put their faith in beneficial random mutations which have never proven to be random. 4) So you say we put faith in random mutations that arent random? Natural seletion is more than random although i myself have not leart all about it. 5) Evolutionists put their faith in natural selection, which has never even been tested. 5) It better than "Some random guy made everything for a laugh...just cause he got bored." 6) Evolutionists put their faith in flawed dating techniques. 6) Well i dont believe in the dating techniques but the way the results end up it does make sense. 7) Evolutionists put their faith in the hopes that humans are actually apes. 7) Why would we hope we are apes, the fact is that we are descended from them. there is lots of similarities which make it likely. 8) Evolutionists put their faith in the hopes that a monkey can morph into a human simply by hopping down from tree branches and walking out into wide open spaces. 8) Seriously these questions are getting repetitive...it does take 1000s of years for it to happen, their body change due to changes in the environment, they adapt to their surroundings and over time change, for all we know for global warming could cause dire changes in the human body over a long long period of time. 9) Evolutionists put their faith that a giant explosion could produce order. 9) Not an explosion, its reffered to as an explosion, but its just expanding, there was nothing, then when the big bang was produced, it expanded into the universe. and it may retract and do it again, as many theories suggest. 10) Evolutionists put their faith that DNA could self-organize from randomly arising chemicals." 10) More "Materials" than "chemicals" id say, and there is no reason why it shouldnt be,the earth, plants, and other things are made of materials so why do you find it obscure that DNA cant be. Pwned by a 13 year old...

old comment by Proud Heathen

evolution is proven! ever heard of seletively breeding in dogs/cats/any other domestic species?? basically you take two animals (of the same species) that have a trait you want and breed them then you breed one of their offspring to another unrelated animal that also has the trait, eventually (after many generations) most or all of the offspring will have the same traits and you have a specific breed (ever wonder why you dont see golden retrievers running around in the wild? its because they were selectively breed to look the way they do by people) evolution is the exact same except that the traits become more or less common based on whether or not they help the animal to survive or not instead of being chosen

old comment by phatso86

"2) Evolutionists put their faith in the fact that fish can morph into amphibians...that amphibians can morph into reptiles..that retiles can morph into mammals...that apes can morph into humans."

i know that me and christians have just about the same "morals" regarding arbortion, homosexuality, philicides (tho i wouldnt worship one like a christian), etc..

but when it comes to science & logic, you people just dissapoint me so bad

maybe if you guys took the time to open a biology book rather than dwell in your fairy tale stories, you wouldn't make such puerile statements

***A frog is born as a tadpole. Tadpoles have gills, no lungs. Frogs have lungs. Just within a SINGLE GENERATION you can see that the creature evolves

7) 8) 9) 10)
i dont think ANY scietist would agree with those statements

the most sad part of all this is, that christians actually ridicule scientists for their theories and research supporting them.
Yet not a single christian can really say that there is a heaven
When a christian fears death or the death of a loved one, that is proof that there is doubt in their hearts

old comment by Yourinsane

Your a "Lordie".
Let's see what "Lordies" put their faith in:

Being right, because a voice told them it was so;
Killing people because a voice told them it was so;
Disregarding reality, because a voice told them it was so;
Being a friggin fruitcake, because a voice told them so;
Fearing good, honest folk because a voice supposedly told them so;
Being one sandwich short of a picnic, a couple of screws loose, a hamburger with no burger, kool aid with no sugar,
ahhhhhhhhh forget it, you are whacked, just go into a hole, so I don't have to listen to your inane and insane, made up beliefs and theories any longer.
Really, you and your sorts have been allowed way too much freedom of thought. Which is particularly scary in the context of how little thought you are actually able to produce during years of "hard" thinking you proclaim to have done.
You all claim to be U.S. Citizens, but you don't give a crap about anyone other than yourselves. If Jesus were to come here, you would probably be the first that he would smote with his righteous sword. You bigoted, racist hypocrit
Go fuck yourselves, all of you god fearing heathen!

old comment by Ellie

1. So do Christians. Don't you remember hearing that we were created from "dust?"
2. Choose your words carefully. Morphing and evolution aren't the same thing. They don't "morph." They change over thousands of generations due to what traits they inherit. That's not called morphing.
3. Thousands? No... but we have found common ancestors. Haven't you ever heard of fossils?
4. Most random mutations don't last more than a couple generations, but over millions of years, there are bound to be many of them that are good. They randomly appear, but they are not randomly selected as beneficial.
5. Creationists put their faith in the idea that the world was created in six days and is only 6000 years old. That hasn't been tested, either. (Also, you can't test natural selection... that would make it ARTIFICIAL selection, which explains things like dog breeds.)
6. Creationists don't even HAVE dating techniques.
7. Apes are just creatures that are tailless and have opposable thumbs. Oops, we fit into that category.
8. You made that up!
9. Creationists put their faith that a murderous, rape-condoning God could produce order.
10. Not randomly arising chemicals... if they were random, we'd see much more cancer. Have you ever heard of cancer? Probably not.

old comment by Samyaza

Christians put their faith in a badly translated, scientifically flawed, historically inaccurate, and self contradictory collection of bronze age myths, for which there is no evidence, written by middle eastern goatherders about talking snakes, giants, 600 year old drunks who load billions of animals into wooden boats, worldwide floods, talking bushes, talking donkeys, strongmen with magic hair, flying chariots of fire, and fire breathing dragons, and that the entire cosmos was created 6000 years ago in just six days by an angry, sadistic, jealous, genocidal SKY-god who came from nothing, who is supposedly the only god yet has winged messengers, who is supposedly all-powerful yet got his ass kicked by iron chariots, and who is supposedly all-knowing yet couldn't even find two streakers in a garden, and then finally decided send himself as his own son , to sacrifice himself to himself who was his own father, to forgive us for two people made from dirt, eating a piece of magical fruit from a magical tree which he himself planted and will send us to be tortured for all eternity if we don't believe in it and ask for evidence.

westernjoe, you are a fucktard.

old comment by AnnAnnA

1) Evolutionists put their faith in a mysterious primordial swamp that produced life from non-life.

as opposed to: a benevolent, omnipotent being who can create an entire world with only words, producing life from non-life

2) Evolutionists put their faith in the fact that fish can morph into amphibians...that amphibians can morph into reptiles..that retiles can morph into mammals...that apes can morph into humans.

as opposed to: dirt morphing into humans

4) Evolutionists put their faith in beneficial random mutations which have never proven to be random.

well, considering just about nothing IS random

5) Evolutionists put their faith in natural selection, which has never even been tested.

in the same way fundies put their faith in the presence of a God of is everywhere, everytime, condemning those who do not follow him to enternal damnation, much like greek and roman philosophy, which has never been tested.

6) Evolutionists put their faith in flawed dating techniques.

Fundies put their faith in flawed literature (ie contradictory)

7) Evolutionists put their faith in the hopes that humans are actually apes.

well, isnt this just showing your ignorance. Humans are not apes. we do not pretend they are, or ever were, neither do we 'hope' this. Humans and apes evolved together, from a common anscestor. It is called divergent evolution (from the same ancestor), followed by parallel evolution (notice that humans and apes are still remarkably alike. particularly with monkeys, who are related more closely to us the apes. this indicates that we shared a common ancestor with them a shorter time ago than a common ancestor with apes)

8) Evolutionists put their faith in the hopes that a monkey can morph into a human simply by hopping down from tree branches and walking out into wide open spaces.

oh, because this is EXACTLY what the theory of evolution claims. just like fundies claim that the whole world of believers is saved because the a guy was born through a woman who was impregnated divinely, proceeded to cure a few people, perform a few miracles, died, rose again three days later and then ascended to heaven. yes, we evolutionist sure do seem crazy!

9) Evolutionists put their faith that a giant explosion could produce order.

Fundies put their faith in an orderly diety that could produce an explosion...after all, isnt god going to strike down the non-believers. oh yes, we fear being smited by god, us evolutionist. that is why we dont sleep at night!

old comment by Lithp

1) Fundies put their faith in Gawd, who created everything in a few days, for no apparent reason.

2) Fundies put their faith in Satan, an entity of intense evil, created by God, that he somehow can't control.

3)Fundies put their faith in the belief that dinosaur bones were planted to test their faith.

4) Fundies put their faith in the belief that all science, except the science that helps them, is wrong.

5) Fundies put their faith in abiogenesis from dirt, which has never been tested.

6) Fundies put their faith in 4-legged insects.

7) Fundies put their faith in the hopes that blood is actually a form of light.

8) Fundies put their faith in the belief that men have less ribs than women.

9) Fundies put their faith in rape and torture to lead them to Heaven.

10) Fundies put their faith in prayer--not to help people, but that Gawd will torture their enemies for all time.

Check and mate, bitch.

old comment by King Duncan

1) Sure. Happens every day. Photosynthesis. Look it up.
2) Okay. Takes longer than you assume.
3) Okay. Except for those we have found.
4) Random is relative. Beneficial is relative. Proof? How about moths evolving a new color to deal with industrialization in Industrial Era England?
5) Except it tests itself in nature every day. Other than that, okay.
6) Sure, why not? A ten percent margin of error STILL puts these dates way before your stupid book was written.
7) Ok, no, not really. Maybe in the same way that dogs are wolves. Or cats. Similar, related, but separate species. No cross breeding possible.
8) Given a few millenia, yes.
9) In the same way a dust cloud can settle to form an orderly coating of dust, yes. Gravity is an awesome force.
10) Sure. Why not? Billions of chemicals. One chance reaction. Probability doesn't have to be very high. Math is funny like that.

So... what was your point?

old comment by

1) Ok a)Evolutionists haven't agreed on the source of the first life yet AND it's more realistic to think life came from non-life than complete perfection came from absolutely nothing
2)Evolution is not about morphing, evolutionists believe parents don't look exactly like their childern OOO how ridiculous is that
3)*cough* fossils, I dare you to go find Adam and Eve and then PROVE it's them - shouldn't be too hard you've got God on your side ;)
4)Benefitial unneeded here, we believe in mutation, just some of which are beneficial. The system of reproduction suggests a random mixture of genes, which then would mean random mutations.
5)Yes because God has been tested has he? Oh wait I remember, he has! now what were the results of that test again? :)
6)Evolutionists at least use partially accurate science, religions use books made before anywhere near as advanced technologies as carbon dating were
7)Ape's a label, it's just one of the words we invented to fit anything with simialar genes to each other. We have simialar genes, so we're in that category.
8)Again, it's not "morphing", it's just more suited one's having more kids. It doesn't require alot of faith to think that sometime over thousands and thousands of years an ape will have climbed out of a tree. Oh wow how ridiculous were we being?
9) No we don't I'm an evolutionist and do not believe in the big bang, gravity creates somewhat "order" but the universe is hardly orderly anyway.
10) Again this is the issue of how it began, I don't claim to know but evolutionists are split on this, what you said make's the assumption that we all share the same view on this - we do not.

Please don't accuse me of having faith, faith is your concept, it's your disease, it's sad to hear that you have faith in anything, let alone a big man in the sky. You are angry because we have found something to believe that actually makes sense, GET OVER IT, I'm going to hell remember ;).

WHAT A RETARD! |=/ Some people are really petty, and SO hypocritical.

old comment by BIBBOB

1) It has been proven that in the conditions provided by primordial earth, the chemicals in the atmosphere were indeed able to bond into amino acids, which can build themselves into DNA, and thus, life.

2) There is no "morphing" it takes millions of years for evolution, for all of the necessary changes all the way to humans.

3) Fossils.

4) They have been proven to be nothing but random.

5) Darwin has tested and proven natural selection.

6) They are not flawed.

7) Humans are not apes. Humans and apes simply have common ancestors.

8) Not true. See #2.

9) The big bang did not create order. It created chaos. The universe is nothing but chaos, even today. You would know this if you simply opened your eyes.

10) Not true. See #1

11)????

12)Profit!

old comment by eire_rich

I put my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Let's take a look at what evolutionists put their faith in:

1) Evolutionists put their faith in a mysterious primordial swamp that produced life from non-life. (that's funny...but fyi, evolutionists don't deal with the issue of the origins of life...it's an interesting question but it is not part of the field of study)

2) Evolutionists put their faith in the fact that fish can morph into amphibians...that amphibians can morph into reptiles..that retiles can morph into mammals...that apes can morph into humans. (...and humans inot fundies...man, what went wrong)

3) Evolutionists put their faith in thousands of common ancestors that have never been found (...to go along with the thousands that have been found.)

4) Evolutionists put their faith in beneficial random mutations which have never proven to be random. (...nor beneficial...in your case anyways)

5) Evolutionists put their faith in natural selection, which has never even been tested. (what planet are you living on...surely not on with the wealth of scientifically peer reviewed litterature on exactly that subject...silly moron)

6) Evolutionists put their faith in flawed dating techniques. (Such as...? So the dating technique suggests that the earth is more than 6000 years old and automatically it is wrong?...Obviously!)

7) Evolutionists put their faith in the hopes that humans are actually apes. (...and that fundies are actually asshats!)

8) Evolutionists put their faith in the hopes that a monkey can morph into a human simply by hopping down from tree branches and walking out into wide open spaces. (and that a fundie can morph into a rational human being by dropping that silly book)

9) Evolutionists put their faith that a giant explosion could produce order. (You missed the point, evolutionists embrace chaos.)

10) Evolutionists put their faith that DNA could self-organize from randomly arising chemicals. (...no we don't, in fact, contrary to you, we don't spew things out of our asses and claim to own the truth. The only reason you deny evolution and believe in ID is because you were born into it and are unable to think outside of that religiously-induced air-tight box of yours that saps any ability to criticize your indoctrination....I challenge you to provide any evidence that supports an alternate theory, and I promise that if your evidence is anything close to worthy, I will reconsider my positon...I'm quite convinced that you are incapable of issuing the same challenge because you would be an atheist evolutionist by now.)

old comment by Mech610

Now now my friends, just because these people are complete loons doesn't mean we have to stoop to their level. Let them put their faith in folklore and legends that were MEANT TO BE TAKEN WITH A GRAIN OF SALT AND NOT LITERALLY! How long will it take these people to understand that the Bible was written to show morals and the stories in it ((Though some of them may or may NOT have some sort of historical accuracy or significance)) did not happen the way the book claims it happened?!

Also, for it to be a mysterious primordial SWAMP, wouldn't it have to have life to start with? It's my understanding that a swamp is only a swamp because of the existence of water and plant life.

old comment by Mike

Here's what I put my 'faith' in : mountains of peer-reviewed, independently confirmed empirical and observational data.
Here's what a fundamentalist puts their faith in: a book written 3000 years ago.
Also, using the word faith is completely wrong in this context as faith is something that should be rejected out of hand simply because of it's definition of being a belief in that which cannot in any way be tested. It's effectively saying 'This is true because I believe it.' I would really like to believe that there are not people that have this narrow of a world view and are completely unscientific, but that does not make it true. Science does not work on faith, it works on data

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"4) Evolutionists put their faith in beneficial random mutations which have never proven to be random"

What difference does that make? I mean, let's start with, I don't put 'faith' into random mutations. If anything, I have 'trust' in the peer review process that holds mutations to be part of the evolutionary process because they explain observations that have been made.
If new observations demand a new theory, then i'll wait for it to be crafted. But the observations made so far will not miraculously disappear because of the new theory...

I don't see where anyone examining the mutations needs to prove that they're 'random,' though.

I suspect you think that evolutionary theory demands a godless universe. if we find there's a pattern to mutations, that indicates an intelligence behind them, that would, in your imagination, spoil evolutionary theory.

Fact is, though, evolutionary theory is neutral to the question of a divine being. It attempts to explain WHAT HAPPENED. Due to the nature of science, we look for 'what happened' stories that don't depend on one or another god taking action. But we don't preclude it.
If you wanna believe that evolution happens at god's direction, more power to you. It's just an unnecessary element with no evidence behind it. But knock yourself out.

westernjoe #fundie christianforums.com

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