Quote# 138064

Sven2547: What, specifically, about my comment is ignorant? Do you DENY that Al-Qaeda wants war between a united Islam and the "West"? Speaking as a non-religious person, I find it hilariously hypocritical when Christians insist on a 100% literal reading of the Koran, while refusing to hold the Bible to the same standard. The vast, vast majority of the world's Muslims don't abide by every jot and tittle of the Koran any more than the world's Christians abide the Bible.

Mo: Not a word about what I said. You have no clue what that even means, do you?

Sven2547: Not a word about what I said. They're old terms for the "kingdom (house) of Islam" and the "kingdom (house) of war". Note that this is not actually a tenet of the religion itself, but a classification used by some early Islamic scholars during a period of violence in the 8th Century AD.

Mo: Googled it, huh? And yet it's Muslims who use these divisions because they are the ones who are at war with us, all over the world. They've demonstrated it over and over and OVER again - in NYC, in Madrid, in London, in Boston - over and over and over again they prove it. It doesn't matter how many bodies are piled up by those correctly following the teachings of Islam, does it? You are still going to deny it and even claim it's the fault of evangelical Christians. Remarkable Tell me, 1) what was your impression of the Koran's view of unbelievers when you read it and 2) what was your impression of the Koran as you compared it with your reading of the Bible? You can't answer that because you've not done either, have you ? Goodbye.

Sven2547: My question to you is: what do you propose? Making Muslims second-class citizens? Blanket violence against all Muslims? What conclusion should be drawn from your argument, other than "be afraid"?

Mo: How about starting with speaking the facts about Islam? How about everyone actually READING the Koran so that they know what they are talking about? But they refuse. You can't address a problem until you admit there is one. And we're not even at that first stage yet. How much bloodshed by Muslims will it take before we wake up?

Sven2547: The Bible embraces violence and hatred every bit as much as the Koran, yet almost Christian I know is a nice person. It's hypocritical to make the opposite assumption about Muslims. Again I ask: what do you propose? What does "waking up" entail for you? What's your plan? What's your optimal outcome? Repeating over and over "Islam is evil! Muslims are bad people!" isn't a substitute for civil discourse or sane public policy.

Mo: "The Bible embraces violence and hatred every bit as much as the Koran" And that's as far as I read of your comment, and the last I will be engaging in conversation with you. This is a flat out lie. There are no open-ended commands in the OT or the NT for Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers or against anyone. You cannot produce any because they do not exist. Therefore, there are no Jews or Christians committing such acts, on a regular basis, all over the world, in obedience to any such commands. Period.

Butterfly: You have got to be one of the most poorly informed christians I have ever happened upon. Please don't tell me you actually believe that the bible does not contain commands from god to commit atrocious acts of violence against others... The christian god not only commands it multiple times, he promises his followers women and young girls as spoils of war in return for committing genocide. So they not only were told to murder, they were promised the right to rape others as a reward. I'm not going to bother posting the actual scriptures because some of the other folks here have already done that. I will, however, encourage you to Google the Amelekites and do a general search on the topics of war, murder and genocide in the bible and see what you find. Then come back and see if you still (rather stupidly) believe that the biblical god does not ask his people to commit horrible acts of violence against others. Oh, and if you decide to come back here all ruffled and insist upon attacking me instead of addressing what was said in regard to the bible, you'll be ignored. Also, you'd better come prepared, because I was christian for a long time and I used to teach it. Bring it on, baby.

Mo: "I'm not going to bother posting the actual scriptures because some of the other folks here have already done that." You won't bother, because you know they don't exist. Others haven't, because they don't exist. There are no open-ended commands in the OT or the NT for Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers or against anyone. None. Zero. You cannot produce any because they do not exist. That is why we do not see Jews or Christians committing such acts, on a regular basis, all over the world, in obedience to any such commands. Now, how about addressing ISLAM, the focus of this article?

ToTripoli: "You won't bother, because you know they don't exist. Others haven't, because they don't exist." So you are blatantly ignoring the verses in the comments above the one you quoted. Isn't that tantamount to bearing false witness? Or are you actually convinced that the following passages do not exist in the Bible?: Romans 1:32, Leviticus 20:9-10, Deuteronomy 21:20-21, Deuteronomy 22:22, Exodus 21:15, Luke 19:27, Exodus 22:20, Deuteronomy 13:6-10, 2 Chronicles 15:12-13, Deuteronomy 13:13-19, Deuteronomy 13:7-12, Deuteronomy 17:2-5, and Numbers 25:1-9. I am increasingly convinced that you have never read the Torah or the Bible, beyond a handful of verses. Oh, and as for Christians & Jews committing acts of terrorism? Look up "Christian Identity," "Lord's Resistance Army," "Anders Breivik," and "Bat Ayin Underground." (It should be noted that Jewish terrorism is far, far less common than terrorism committed in the name of Christianity.)

Mo: There are ZERO open ended commands for Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers. That's why we're not seeing Jews or Christians AROUND THE WORLD ON A REGULAR BASIS committing any such acts IN OBEDIENCE TO ANY SUCH TEXTS. I hate to shout,but that may be the only way to get through to people like you. Such commands don't exist. You can't provide any. PERIOD. Now, instead of babbling about Christianity or Judaism, how about ISLAM, which is the purpose of this article, since MUSLIMS are the ones slaughtering people around the world in obedience to not only their texts, but their warlord prophet? How about that? Anything to say on Islam? Of course not. Just nonsense about Christianity and Judaism.

Mo, Patheos 6 Comments [6/14/2018 6:46:27 AM]
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Submitted By: Christopher

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hydrolythe

Reminds me of a debate I had with an apartheid apologist a while back. In the sense that you're pressuring them for providing evidence of their beliefs yet they keep acting as if they already have provided the evidence and in the end it's you who have provided more quotes and citations than the one who should be doing the work.

6/14/2018 7:26:23 AM



Let's see, am I amused or frustrated at this blokes willful ignorance ? Can't decide.

6/14/2018 8:32:43 AM

Anon-e-moose

Meanwhile, Alt-Shitists' demands for 'White Jihad'.

Your call.

6/14/2018 9:09:19 AM



I wish I could say Mo is a troll but debates I have had with Christians like him/her would disavow anything like that because unbelievers can not know their book (one moved goal posts saying I did not read with open heart. I pointed out he couldn't know that not what was in my heart unless he were god. He shut up after that). That said Mo is probably dealing with cognitive dissonance and is not willing to acknowledge how close Qu'aran is to Old Testament. Even after provided with the commands he says there are none. If he reads Joshua he is in for a surprise

6/14/2018 11:33:40 AM

ChrisBP747

Ah yes, the typical hypocrisy of a fundamentalist: "You can't take MY religious text at face value when it comes to these obviously morally repugnant parts, but in every other regard (and when it suits me) you should read it literalistically. Oh and the opposite is true for every other religions of course."
Classic example. In the end it's impossible to really "win" a discussion with a fundie since they'll never change their minds. Much more important is that your arguments reach any audience the discussion has.

6/14/2018 4:05:26 PM

NonProphet

"You can't provide examples of God commanding violence in the Bible, or Christian & Jewish groups who commit violence in the name of God!"

*a person provides chapter & verse, plus religious groups that regularly commit terrorism in the name of their religion*

"SEE? THEY DON'T EXIST! LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

6/14/2018 5:26:12 PM

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